Authors to avoid??

[Something to Replace]

I got this list from another guild:
Silver Ravenwolf
Fionna Horne
Lauri Cabot
Starhawk
Gwinevere Rain
Konstantinos
Dorothy Morrison
D.J. Conway
Gavin and Yvonne Frost
Hailey D.D Kleine
Sandra Kynes

I understand why the first two should be avoided but the rest, I either don't know of them or I don't understand why they should be avoided. Starhawk's Spiral Dance has been recommended, Lauri Cabot has been mentioned to be avoided but I don't know why (I've seen what she looks like though..O_o), I've heard of Conway but forget what she has written and I don't know much about her, and I've enjoyed reading one particular book by Dorothy Morrison. The rest, I have never heard of them and don't know anything about them. Could someone clear this up for me?  

[maenad nuri]

I don't know why Starhawk would be on the list, unless its specific for a tradition. Conway uses the same material, and just orients it with different deity names, and her history is bad otherwise as well.

Most people know my comments on Silver, Horne is another moneymaker. Never heard of Rain. Konstantinos is the "dark" version of Silver, imo. Morrison sounds familar, but I can't recall what she wrote. The Frosts, I guess because some of their early views are very close to being illegal, but they are important to early Wicca, from what I know, and should be read with salt.

Never heard of Kleine or Kynes  

[Jasta]

Laurie Cabot tends to be a bit of a boring author, I've found...
But she is one of the pioneers of modern day witchcraft, and has worked hard for the acceptance of our faith - something that we tend to take for granted these days. As such, she deserves some respect - her books are not full of fluff; there's no chapters about "10 things a Witch absolutely NEEDS". Instead she encourages the mental discipline that your mind is all you need to create magick. This makes it a) unpopular with the people trying to sell you athames and other stuff, and b) a lot more hard work than most modern day "pagans" want to be investing.

Her stuff is worth reading though, if just for the perspective of an older Witch (she lives in Salem, btw) and for the different mental techniques mentioned.

Hehe... it is possible she's on the avoid list just because Silver RavenWolf recommends her in her books >^_^<

Fiona Horne... I think she just picked up the name Witch to get added publicity for her rock group - which incidentally split up a while ago, which is probably the thing that sparked her decision to write books.

Conway - I like some of her Celtic stuff, but not read anything else by her.

Starhawk, I think (I might have he confused with someone else, so if thats so, sorry!), was one of the first (or perhaps just the most famous) in the "Neo-Pagan" movement - you had Gardnerian, Alexandrian, all these different traditions crawling out the woodwork; I'm pretty sure she was among the first to say "Well, actually, anyone can do it"... and be listened to, at any rate. Don't forget, to a lot of traditional covens, almost everyone who's learnt from a book, or studies alone, is a fluffy-bunny-pagan. If you haven't been initiated into a coven, handed the secret BOS thats been handed down for generations, and taught the mysteries and secrets, you're not one of them, period. Starhawk's message that this isn't true would be enough to get her on some people's blacklist..

And again, she is recommended by Silver >^_^< The final nail in the coffin for some authors, I'm sure...  

[miserabelle]

I don't mind Cabot, she's a bit... weird. Her appearance kind of screams 'fluff'. But there are some good excercises in her books.  

[Starlock]

I tend to ignore any sorts of author blacklists around on the net, read everything, and make my own judgements. You cannot fairly assess any author by putting them on some 'don't read this' blacklist, but then I'm of the mind that there is no book in existence not worth looking through at least once. If with these lists, reasons aren't given for why they're there, I wouldn't pay much attention to them. And even if there are reasons, such reviews are always biased to the reviewer; ask yourself who is doing the review, what they probably value, and what perspective they bring to the book. A person concerned with the scholarship of a book is going to rate something differently than someone who is more biased towards how original the spells are.

Several of the authors on the list I'm not familiar with, but Starhawk and the Frost's on the list is surprising. I agree with how Jasta explains why Starhawk is likely on this list; she was among the first to really start shifting how Wicca is defined in the community beyond the confines of covens and there are those who disagree with that. Seems like often times these 'don't read me' author lists are really just someone's personal take on what's 'correct practice' and what isn't rather than what is well written and researched.  

[maenad nuri]

Starlock

Several of the authors on the list I'm not familiar with, but Starhawk and the Frost's on the list is surprising. I agree with how Jasta explains why Starhawk is likely on this list; she was among the first to really start shifting how Wicca is defined in the community beyond the confines of covens and there are those who disagree with that. Seems like often times these 'don't read me' author lists are really just someone's personal take on what's 'correct practice' and what isn't rather than what is well written and researched.

While I can agree with that (Starhawk is on my lists of "please read this author" as she readily defines many of the elements of many neo-pagan faiths. She is a great writer, despite her history being off), I don't understand why she would still be on their lists. She did the responsible thing and created the Reclaiming Tradition, which isn't a form of Wicca.  

[Ainsley Lo]

inblood_isoak

I got this list from another guild:
Silver Ravenwolf
Fionna Horne
Lauri Cabot
Starhawk
Gwinevere Rain
Konstantinos
Dorothy Morrison
D.J. Conway
Gavin and Yvonne Frost
Hailey D.D Kleine
Sandra Kynes

Well, I would have to say that the reason that Starhawk made the list is because of how radical she tends to be in everything she does. She also tends to bring her own personal views on non-pagan matters into things she really shouldn't, especially when she is trying to reach out to the public about neo-paganism. She has also done some questionable things over the recent years that call in question how far over the line she is willing to cross while holding her pagan banner high.

Laurie Cabot. Well, she tends to take her 'Official Witch of Salem' thing a little too far. I've been told by people in the area that she sells initiations out of her store, has claimed that her dressed up halloween-esque appearece is 'traditional wiccan garb', and otherwise just puts on an act. It's one thing to dress goth and quite another to claim you do it for religious reasons. Anyways, other than the fact that she comes off as a flake, I'm sure that there is actually alot you can learn from her in her books.

To be honest, there is probably alot you can learn from all of them, even Ms. Ravenwolf. The trouble is that alot of people have a hard time realizing what lessons they should remember and use in life and what things they should just forget about so the rest of us don't have to beat it out of them with a giant 2X4 of DOOM!  

[Ainsley Lo]

Oh oh! Wait...I take that back. I forgot Ms. Horne was on the list. Bah-Dum CHING!  

[TeaDidikai]

Nuri

Konstantinos is the "dark" version of Silver, imo.

I actually like his work- well, his new work at least. He's grown a lot. Perhaps there should be a notation on the Copyright dates for that one.  

[LadyEladrin]

Starhawk being on the list surprised me as well. She's a terrific author and has no fluff about her. I recommend her as a read if anyone asks me "What should I be reading?" and dont' like my answer of "EVERYHING!" I'm with Starlock when she said that you should read everything out there, make your own opinions and learn the hard way how to cut the chaff from the wheat.

D.J. Conway's book Dancing With Dragons has some good things in it, but I'm not quite done it yet. Yes, it's a tad fluffy, and the history is off, but the excercises and meditations, not to mention the section on ritual tools, is pretty well done.  

[TeaDidikai]

EladrinStarmist

Starhawk being on the list surprised me as well. She's a terrific author and has no fluff about her. I recommend her as a read if anyone asks me "What should I be reading?" and dont' like my answer of "EVERYHING!" I'm with Starlock when she said that you should read everything out there, make your own opinions and learn the hard way how to cut the chaff from the wheat.

D.J. Conway's book Dancing With Dragons has some good things in it, but I'm not quite done it yet. Yes, it's a tad fluffy, and the history is off, but the excercises and meditations, not to mention the section on ritual tools, is pretty well done.

Conway caught a lot of flack for her books Norse Magic and Celtic Magic- mostly because 90% of both books were neither Norse, nor Celtic in nature, but OCW- with a thin veil of Cultural mythos tossed into the mix.

And Dancing With Dragons is down right dangerous in my book.

Ask Reagun his feelings about "evoking" a real dragon into a ritual because you feel like using it to help cast the circle.  

[Doctrix]

Meh, it depends on who should be avoiding them. I wouldn't avoid the Frosts! And I'll chime in with a love of Starhawk. Fluffy? Maybe, but the woman can write!  

[LadyEladrin]

O.o I haven't read anything I'd consider dangerous about dragons in her book, but yeah, I can see where mixing up or ignorning history is gonna get you in trouble.

Ppsst! Kudzu! Starhawk ISN'T fluffy! As for the frosts, I can't remeber the titles of anything they've written. I'm less of an academic Pagan and more of a practising one. sweatdrop  

[Sivirs]

EladrinStarmist

O.o I haven't read anything I'd consider dangerous about dragons in her book, but yeah, I can see where mixing up or ignorning history is gonna get you in trouble.

Well, the absolute BS that is the Celtic and Norse Magic books she put out aside (I own both, I can vouch for their suckness), I think Conway's biggest problem is the complete inability, or perhaps unwillingness, to differentiate fact from opinion or UPG. She seems to think that just because she thinks it's a good idea, or even just because she wants it to be that way, it's okay to write about it in a factual tone as if it were true.

If you can sift through the mounds of BS to uncover some goodies (her Moon Magick book does have some fun recipes and whatnot), power to you. But I'd definitely tell beginners to stay away until they have a good, solid base which will repel 90% of the bull. And as far as the dragon magic book goes... honestly, it's kind of like a glorified UPG-filled meditation book. You could probably achieve a better relationship with dragons WITHOUT the book's help rather than with it, Eldarin. wink

Quote:

As for the frosts, I can't remeber the titles of anything they've written.

They may be the ones who've gotten in hot water for advocating some very fringe or borderline-child-abusive ideas, and presenting them as tradition or fact, and also for the whole "online church of insta-Wicca" thing. I think. I get them confused with Oberon Zell, who also AFAIK has a frustrating tendency to throw out a gem of wisdom or inspiration into the Pagan community and then crap all over it with weird ego trips and Harry Potter Wicca and whatnot.

Anyway, here's what appears to be a similar blacklist to the one that began this thread, but with brief explanations as to why the authors are blacklisted. It's still not completely satisfactory, a little too emotional and not too "here are specific examples of why" scholarlylike for me in places, and since I don't know the person who wrote it I can't vouch for its accuracy in detail, but at least it'll give you an idea of why the authors are chosen by many blacklists.

http://www.thecrookedheath.com/bewarenf.htm  

[TeaDidikai]

EladrinStarmist

O.o I haven't read anything I'd consider dangerous about dragons in her book,

And that is the problem.