Iraq war.

[Invictus_88]

http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?page=2&t=1612690#39619287

I was going to tack that link onto the end of another thread, but I saw that we have no thread on Iraq and thought it wise to make one.

How do you judge the conduct of the UK in Iraq, and how do the view the process by which we arrived in the conflict?

The link is simply to a thread in the Politicians Guild, it shows the worrying extent of delusion found in a few American people.  

[A Lost Iguana]

Invi, you must know that Pimpkilla is one of the most delusional people to inhabit the ED razz , well, I noticed he was a ultra pro-US fool during the time I was bothered to browse that forum.

Still, good job on that reply; normallly I cannot be bothered to argue with people who claim to know it all. (Which the other side generally seems to see as me conceding the point... ******** that, I just have better things to do than argue with people who will not listen)  

[Invictus_88]

My main concern is that impressionable people may find themselves believing people like him.

People usually don't. Though some do, and I'm not sure I've yet tired of trying to curb the misinformation of fools.

Still, it may pass eventually.  

[Nebelstern]

I just can't believe he's arguing that seriously with such poor punctuation... gonk  

[A Lost Iguana]

Invictus_88

My main concern is that impressionable people may find themselves believing people like him.

Maybe. What is worrying is the amount of what appears to be self-deception about such matters.

One of my biggest bugbears is some American's attitude to the Second World War. If anyone "won the war" or "saved out asses" it was the Red Army.  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

i would resond to that but i am not in that guild... yet... (has applyed)

i think we all know my stance on Iraq... we should NEVER have went in. and the process in which we arrived at the confilt was wrong and lies where told. lies told to the British and American people, not tomention the world and UN. the Army as far as i have seen have behaved quite well.. but i didnt like that jail break thing...  

[Jaega]

It really is worrying that people like Pimpkilla can actually believe what they're saying O_o Shame also that he doesn't seem to be able to type.

I have always been against the Iraq war, even to get rid of Saddam. I have no idea why those so keen on "getting rid of evil Saddam" seemed to think that as soon as he'd been toppled, the country would suddenly evolve into a flourishing, peaceful democracy. Because, you know, people like it when you invade their country.

I have to admit, that however much Blair lied and swindled his way into the war, he has in some ways actually been a restraining influence on America. Take the recent example of him allegedly dissuading Bush from bombing Al-Jazeera. It would surely have been a real catastrophe for the coalition had Bush gone through with that.

Things like that are probably the best reason I can see for Britain's continued involvement in Iraq and "special relationship" with America. Since I doubt we could ever have stopped America going to war we may at least be able to minimise some of the damage. I have to say, though, that I can't see any other reasons for the UK's conduct, and the consequences of our taking part at all may well be worse than any gains.  

[Invictus_88]

Jaega

I have to admit, that however much Blair lied and swindled his way into the war, he has in some ways actually been a restraining influence on America. Take the recent example of him allegedly dissuading Bush from bombing Al-Jazeera. It would surely have been a real catastrophe for the coalition had Bush gone through with that.

Things like that are probably the best reason I can see for Britain's continued involvement in Iraq and "special relationship" with America. Since I doubt we could ever have stopped America going to war we may at least be able to minimise some of the damage. I have to say, though, that I can't see any other reasons for the UK's conduct, and the consequences of our taking part at all may well be worse than any gains.

Ah, while I agree with what you say in general. That is, that the influence of the UK in the coalition actions in Iraq has been one that has cooled the flames of American malpractice. I do try to bear in mind that the lesser of two evils (or, to be more accurate in this instance, the lesser of two negative influences) is still on the wrong side of neutrality to be good.

The influence of our government has been less bad than that of the whitehouse, however it has still not been good.

Lies, deceit and cowardice.  

[Niphredil Ithilmir]

The whole 'build-up' was a complete farce. Utterly. Downing St memo, anyone? The evidence was either fabricated, greatly exaggerated or copied off a student's thesis; there was very little international backing, and despite millions of people marching against it all across the globe our dear leaders decided that they knew better.

Do you remember at the beginning, back in March 03? They said that the war would last 'six days' and they would topple Saddam then get out.

We're still going to be there in six years, aren't we..?

Not to mention all the prisoner abuse cases which have come up, and I'd bet there was a lot more going on which doesn't manage to filter into our fluffy western media.

No one will deny that Saddam was a dictator, and a torturer of his people, but there are worse dictators, some of which are actually supported by the 'Coalition'.

Whole thing was just - wrong.  

[Invictus_88]

A damning condemnation.

I do like those, there aren't enough in the world.

I wish our media were more damning sometimes. Though, I'm pleased that they're critical. We're still a step ahead of the USA there..  

[Niphredil Ithilmir]

Invictus_88

A damning condemnation.

I do like those, there aren't enough in the world.

I wish our media were more damning sometimes. Though, I'm pleased that they're critical. We're still a step ahead of the USA there..

rolleyes Fox News, anyone? "We love Bush, he is great, we want to lick his shoes, and we'll call his victory even if he didn't win just to confuse everyone else".

I think our media is ok. I went to this talk at the Cheltenham Literature Festival given by John Pilger - quite a well known journalist, occasionally writes for the New Statesman - and really, our media is a lot better than over the pond.. they just report all the happy fluffy bunbun things even in the middle of a tragedy - last year, during the tsunami, all the US TV reports were filled with 'amazing heroic rescues' and the like.. they can go on deluding themselves.  

[Invictus_88]

Niphredil Ithilmir

Invictus_88

A damning condemnation.

I do like those, there aren't enough in the world.

I wish our media were more damning sometimes. Though, I'm pleased that they're critical. We're still a step ahead of the USA there..

rolleyes Fox News, anyone? "We love Bush, he is great, we want to lick his shoes, and we'll call his victory even if he didn't win just to confuse everyone else".

I think our media is ok. I went to this talk at the Cheltenham Literature Festival given by John Pilger - quite a well known journalist, occasionally writes for the New Statesman - and really, our media is a lot better than over the pond.. they just report all the happy fluffy bunbun things even in the middle of a tragedy - last year, during the tsunami, all the US TV reports were filled with 'amazing heroic rescues' and the like.. they can go on deluding themselves.

1984, anyone?

ninja  

[Darth Buttsecks]

Invictus_88

Niphredil Ithilmir

Invictus_88

A damning condemnation.

I do like those, there aren't enough in the world.

I wish our media were more damning sometimes. Though, I'm pleased that they're critical. We're still a step ahead of the USA there..

rolleyes Fox News, anyone? "We love Bush, he is great, we want to lick his shoes, and we'll call his victory even if he didn't win just to confuse everyone else".

I think our media is ok. I went to this talk at the Cheltenham Literature Festival given by John Pilger - quite a well known journalist, occasionally writes for the New Statesman - and really, our media is a lot better than over the pond.. they just report all the happy fluffy bunbun things even in the middle of a tragedy - last year, during the tsunami, all the US TV reports were filled with 'amazing heroic rescues' and the like.. they can go on deluding themselves.

1984, anyone?

ninja

What happened in 1984? >.> And why do I feel stupid for asking that?  

[Invictus_88]

It's a book by George Orwell. Carries strong parallels with modern western Britain. Worrying ones.  

[Darth Buttsecks]

Invictus_88

It's a book by George Orwell. Carries strong parallels with modern western Britain. Worrying ones.

Oh, DUH. I've heard the same thing about this country. neutral I want to read that book now.