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 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:27 pm
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:15 am
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:08 am
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:44 pm
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:00 pm
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Ainwyn I've been looking into Romuva (Lithuanian paganism) over the last couple of week and have kind of fallen in love with it smile I'm trying to find out more about it's cosmology and have found a bunch of different sources of Lithuanian mythology online so far, as well as a lot of folk traditions. The Ancient Church of Lithuania is a good place to look, which is the Canadian/American branch. I've also just sent in a request to a Romuva mailing list on yahoo, so I'll let you know how that is if you have any interest to look into it. Sadly, there's not as much about Romuva available in English compared to a lot of other recon religions, especially considering how long it's been around.
I don't see how I could have missed this post. Please forgive me and thank you for posting ;D
Anyways, I would love that! I actually prefer Lithuanian as opposed to the Latvian. But that's just dealing with mythology. :3 I think I really feel a connection with Saule and Menuo. Though, I can't find out as much about them as I'd like. Saule being the only one I can find solid information for. So, I think it's okay to say I know exactly for you feel information wise. I can't tell you how long I've been looking for information on things as simple as Baltic altars and customs. D:
Today, I was planning on inviting Saule into a meditation. I've got a yellow glass bottle with amber colored daisy-like flowers and a chalice of apple juice for her. I'm hopeing she'll come, But if not, I think I'll just ask for a sign from her. Then when the new moon comes, I'll invite the young moon God into the next one.
Right now, I think this is the best I can do, you know? Just get to know them. :3
What about you?
What brought you to this baltic religion? And, have you met with any of the deities? {I ask this because some pagans choose to meet the deities of that religion before considering following that path.}
I'm sorry for asking so many questions, this is just the first time I've met anyone who knows much about them and I'd like to know what you do and think about this path. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:28 pm
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Namikikyo Though, I've only known about them through this book called "Sun Goddess" that completely switched my veiw on the roles of the Sun and Moon. After that I started feeling how masculine the moon was as well as how feminine the Sun was. And in that book, I learned only a small proportion of Slavic and Baltic deities and practice. I also read about them through wiki, Which I'm sad to say wasn't a very helpful source of information. But, I did find that there are reconstructionalists pagans that worshipped these deities and practiced these religions. So, I thought that there might still be some Slavic and Baltic pagans out there and maybe even in this guild.
Quote: Point of all this is, I want to know all I can about these two religions before I consider joining either of them if I can, or even if I want to after I know more.
Before anyone chokes on the assumed fluff, allow me to explain.
The Slavonic and Baltic peoples didn't have a unified mythology, pantheon, or anything that we could look at and point to as a religions tradition so much as they had a collection of folklore (transmitted to later generations through song and prose) folk traditions and myths that varied from village to village.
The primary source of what one could consider Slavic mythology was compiled by Prince Vladimir in Kiev in the late 900's, only a couple of decades to a couple of centuries before conversion to Christendom (depending on which historical turning point you wish to argue).
There is strong mythological suggestion that while the deities he names were Slavic in nature, the regions he drew from were heavily influenced by Norse culture.
Later accounts such as those found in the 1100's by Helmold are clearly presented through a very Christian filter, which makes a great foundation for Double Faith, if not full Reconstruction. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:14 pm
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TeaDidikai Where's the Collowrath Signal when you need it.
I take it, I did something wrong. I'm sorry. sweatdrop
Quote: From where I sit, and I realize this is a tiny detail, it is less about joining a religion in a formal initiation sort of way and more about adopting an understanding and applying it in daily life.
I can understand this, But how do I do this with so little information?
Quote: Before anyone chokes on the assumed fluff, allow me to explain. The Slavonic and Baltic peoples didn't have a unified mythology, pantheon, or anything that we could look at and point to as a religions tradition so much as they had a collection of folklore (transmitted to later generations through song and prose) folk traditions and myths that varied from village to village. The primary source of what one could consider Slavic mythology was compiled by Prince Vladimir in Kiev in the late 900's, only a couple of decades to a couple of centuries before conversion to Christendom (depending on which historical turning point you wish to argue). There is strong mythological suggestion that while the deities he names were Slavic in nature, the regions he drew from were heavily influenced by Norse culture. Later accounts such as those found in the 1100's by Helmold are clearly presented through a very Christian filter, which makes a great foundation for Double Faith, if not full Reconstruction.
I noticed the Norse thing several times, as well as read about the late Christianization of the Slavic and Baltic people. Thank you for clearing this up, Tea. They were right when they said you knew you're stuff. sweatdrop
But, What I'm gathering from what you're saying is.. Baltic and Slavic mythology and practices are really just lost and water down? |
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:23 pm
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Namikikyo [I take it, I did something wrong. I'm sorry. sweatdrop
Quote: But how do I do this with so little information?
Quote: They were right when they said you knew you're stuff. sweatdrop
Quote: But, What I'm gathering from what you're saying is.. Baltic and Slavic mythology and practices are really just lost and water down?
We have practices as they perpetuated amongst isolated regions. We have songs and some prose.
But this was a culture that wasn't as isolationist as other cultures were. Their initial impressions were that YHVH could be worshiped next to Mokosh or what have you... |
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:54 pm
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Quote: No. You were simply looking for Slavic pagans. He is one... most days of the week.
Oh, That is very comforting. I'll be sure to look for him.
Quote: Give up on attempting a historically accurate Restoration and explore Double Faith traditions and potential reconstructionism.
Yes, Ma'am.
Quote: Who is this "they" you speak of?
Collowrath, specifically. But, I feel like I could have talked to anyone and gotten the same answer about you.
Quote: That's a bit of a disservice to them.
I was being over dramatic, I apologize.
Quote: We have practices as they perpetuated amongst isolated regions. We have songs and some prose. But this was a culture that wasn't as isolationist as other cultures were. Their initial impressions were that YHVH could be worshiped next to Mokosh or what have you...
The Slavic more then the Baltic? Or either way? |
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:01 pm
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TeaDidikai Where's the Collowrath Signal when you need it.
I'd refer people to you on the subject. xp
Quote: From where I sit, and I realize this is a tiny detail, it is less about joining a religion in a formal initiation sort of way and more about adopting an understanding and applying it in daily life.
Essentially, become a Slav. This is a touchy subject I'll bet. Slavic religion isn't limited in the same way Wicca is, and it isn't nearly metagenetic - Hel, most Slavs don't share much genetics. Slovaks such as myself share some 50% of our DNA markers with Persians, Russians are very similar but have more in common with the Scandinavian stock, Balkan Slavs share their genetics mostly with Greeks and Arabs, etc. What is a limiting factor though, is culture, history, and especially, language. We are who we are because we share these things.
Language is the most important of these things. I won't say it's impossible to learn Slavic heathen traditions and gods without Slavic language, but it might prove difficult. Many, perhaps most, Slavic groups either have limited or no information available in English. The subtle, underlying meanings in the folk songs and poems don't translate well sometimes, and neither does the formula for the poems. That being said, adopting cultural celebrations and understandings is another important part of Slavic religion, pagan or otherwise. Many of our modern cultural... understandings? traditions? stem from pagan tradition - but their context is divorced and replaced with a Christian one.
Personally, most of my family is Christian of some sort. My own practice is more in line with Dveviere (Or dvoe verije - Double Faith) - it's mixed very much between Catholic and heathen practice. I tend to emphasize the heathen aspect of these traditions over the Catholic ones; I'm not Catholic in any official capacity.
Quote: The primary source of what one could consider Slavic mythology was compiled by Prince Vladimir in Kiev in the late 900's, only a couple of decades to a couple of centuries before conversion to Christendom (depending on which historical turning point you wish to argue). There is strong mythological suggestion that while the deities he names were Slavic in nature, the regions he drew from were heavily influenced by Norse culture.
This would be understandable - Slavs were bordered on 3 sides by some element of the Norse diaspora. Also, by this time, the intermingling between the two was an every day occurrence.
Quote: Give up on attempting a historically accurate Restoration and explore Double Faith traditions and potential reconstructionism.
This is something I wrestle with on occasion, but it's sound advice. Personally, as my connection is largely cultural, I'm tempted to advise toward exploring the Dveviere/Double Faith. Reconstruction to me often reads like hitting the rewind button on 1,200 years of our history.
Quote: But this was a culture that wasn't as isolationist as other cultures were. Their initial impressions were that YHVH could be worshiped next to Mokosh or what have you...
There was never a time in Europe where we could have been isolated.
<3 Mokoš. She is one of the prime deities that comes to mind, for me, year round. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:40 pm
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Namikikyo Oh, That is very comforting. I'll be sure to look for him.
Most folks reference me because when I joined Gaia, my tradition was heavily influenced by my Great Grandfather's (adopted?) culture, and the fact of the matter is, Nuri creeped the ******** out of me and I didn't trust her as far as I could throw her.
Collowrath's explanation as to why this works is a pretty good one.
Quote: Collowrath, specifically. But, I feel like I could have talked to anyone and gotten the same answer about you.
Quote: I was being over dramatic, I apologize.
Quote: The Slavic more then the Baltic? Or either way?
To be fair, the Baltic areas had more common themes amongst their local practices.
Collowrath I'd refer people to you on the subject. xp
Quote: Essentially, become a Slav.
Quote: <3 Mokoš. She is one of the prime deities that comes to mind, for me, year round.
It amounted to "How nice, it really is a lovely gift, but it's time for you to run home to your Mama now." |
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:57 pm
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TeaDidikai The guild has a few. Most folks reference me because when I joined Gaia, my tradition was heavily influenced by my Great Grandfather's (adopted?) culture, and the fact of the matter is, Nuri creeped the ******** out of me and I didn't trust her as far as I could throw her.
May I ask, Who Nuri is? And if so, Who is she?
Quote: Collowrath's explanation as to why this works is a pretty good one.
I agree. It was very helpful. Thank you, Collowrath.
Quote: Meh. For the most part- copious college credits have been dedicated to the study of this stuff.
Now I have something to forward to in college.
Quote: If you can quantify such a thing... To be fair, the Baltic areas had more common themes amongst their local practices.
I understand. |
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:00 pm
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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:02 am
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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:18 am
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Namikikyo May I ask, Who Nuri is? And if so, Who is she?
Quote: Now I have something to forward to in college.
maenad nuri Namikikyo May I ask, Who Nuri is? And if so, Who is she? That would be me. Apparently, it's a wonder that Tea and I ever became friends. smile
I mean, your user name has some... ummm... interesting associations with Rroma culture and you presented yourself as someone who dressed up on the weekends and... well, yeah.
That and you didn't like me. ninja
Collowrath That's not it necessarily. You've been a huge help to me, figuring out Slavic pagan religion, and Dveviere - pointing me to sources and making me think critically through my hangups and confusion. smile |
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