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 Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:33 am
Hi I'm Elsiane. No formal training but want to improve on basics and increase skills. I like realism but am trying to improve sadly lacking anime. I work with GIMP and SAI. I am trying to focus on line and colour theory if that is what it is called? stuff. Earliest at the top, most recent at the bottom. shape and lighting  a) the image is a "Phantom Coach." Not sure how to draw a coach that is consumed with flames (and it shows!!). b) the lighting on the woman is too intense for a light source that originates around the man's neck! how does one portray diffuse light in a dark setting? c) Also, how does the dark setting interact with the figures? d) Again, problems with composition. I couldn't really "see" this in my head but I tried to plan it out anyway, and I don't think it really worked. Finished piece  a) Shadows are weird but not sure how to colour shadows on snow? (failed attempt at green shadow underneath the yellow skirt) b) Also, composition is disorganised and a bit crammed, which I did anyway so it wouldn't look empty at least. I am told that thumbnails help with composition but I really just draw a blank for even thumbnails. How do you decide how a piece "looks"? I just don't have anything in my head, even for thumbnails. value (dodge layer)  this is a depiction of a game skill "stormsong." any sort of feedback is appreciated, i'm sort of stuck on this one, not sure how to proceed, either with b) the hair or c) the background ("stormsong" must involve a storm somehow, I think, but I don't know how to pull it off) d) or the cloth and motion (it's wrong, isn't it?). e) Was an anime lineart. I am stuck somewhere between realism and anime. original lineart:  "dancer" lineart  tried to go with harder lines and softer lines but wasn't sure exactly how to pull it off. How does one capture motion? Especially (but not only) her hair, which is out of synch with the rest of the motion. I also have concerns with positioning of the shoulder - looks like she is twisted around and not sure how it is to be rectified. "dancer" value  shaded (tinted?) the above lineart. hope it's not against the TOS? It was meant to be a study of pose and shading, not female anatomy. (although if there is something wrong with the anatomy please let me know! eg hands, etc) Also if someone can tell me where the light source is inconsistent?
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:40 am
Wow. I really lke your style. It's simple, yet elegant at the same time.
wink This is from one mentee to another here, so I'm not sure if I'm doing this right.
The latest work is extremely anatomacly correct. The (viewer's right, subject's left) hand is just a little bit awkward, sort of like how the hand would be held while playing a cello, and not so much while dancing. Regardless, the attention to detail is evident, even if there aren't any clothes or anything like that sweatdrop
On stormsong, you're right, the creases in her clothes do seem a little off. It may be because you have it amost falling off of her body on the closeest side, while it's still riding right around the rest of her hips,
The background strikes me as the calm that comes right before a big storm, when all the trees go still and the birds are gone. That errie silence... The hair looks a little odd, the way it's sitting on the (viewer's right, subject's left) side of her head. The hairline's also a little odd, but I don't have much room to talk; I've got a pretty strange hairline, and I can't draw them for crap. Her expression looks a little odd, considering her posture.
For the forest scene, the background is breathtaing, and you did a wonderful job with the way the sunlight catches the snow in the air.
The blonde character was done, except for the overskirt. It looks a little awkward the way it's coming out behind her.
The brunette's costume is stunning, but the white gems she's wearing shouldn't be that bright, considering they're in the shadows. Her head also looks a little bit awkward.
As far as thumbnails go, you can just sketch stick figures, and then build up from that. That's how I do mine. 3nodding
As far as the phantom coach goes, I think the lighting on the woman brings out the intensity of the situation. I'm not sure how you would color all of that in, since I use a tradition medium, not a technological one. Photoshop evades me. sweatdrop
Overall, this is pretty good work. Room for improvement, but don't we all have that little bit?
If you'd like, not that I'm really sure how this relaates, but I'm sure it does, here's my deviantart, just in case you ever wanted to talk on there. wink
Ciao! cellotastic.deviantart.com
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:26 pm
First I must say this, your art work is fantasticly beautiful! I adore your shading technique :3
On the first picture I found nothing wrong, except that for your light source would the man's back be darker?
For the girls in the second picture I too must compliment the background, and the shadows on the snow look find to me, I only found two things off that weren't mentioned. the blond's hair seems to become thinned as if about to end before growing large than what seems offered from her scalp, and the folds under the brunette's dress would be shaded wouldn't they? i mean on the underside?
Everything else seems beautiful, and gives me an idea on a new project for myself ^^
P.S
I love how you draw dresses, and now I shall study you so I can draw dresses better too
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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:25 am
Hey thanks guys for your responses, it means a lot. @Cellotastic: Dancer: Yep, strings family here so that must have influenced the left hand. That makes me think that the problem is that the fingers are too squashed against the palm. I'll have to look again to see what non-squashed fingers should be. Stormsong: Cloth - mmm. Maybe it's a writeoff, haha. You might have seen I didn't lineart the cloth, so maybe I should do that next time to see direction of movement better. A case of detail before form! Background - it's just a generic blotching of colour with some big brushes to give an idea of how dark and light I wanted it to be. I don't know the first place to start for clouds! Hair - it is weird, isn't it. Maybe I should just go with more traditional poses first. Haven't really done the hairline yet, it's supposed to be sort of flying out but I didn't know what I was doing. lol. Expression - is more obvious in the lineart. I'm still not sure how to translate expressions from line into shaded form. Any ideas on how to make her look less stone-like? Forest: Great! It's a finished piece so anything now will be hindsight, heh. Overskirt - Mm. I was trying to portray the idea of the skirt sitting on top of stiff petticoats, but I don't think it worked that well, sort of looks a bit odd compared with everything else. Gems - Heh. Head - mmmm. I wasn't sure how to pull that off. I used an initial direct reference of Disney's Cinderella but it evidently changed awkwardly along the way. Thumbnails - hmm.. I can do the individual elements fine. I mean, all my figures begin with a single line through the spine, etc. I just don't know how they should go together on the "bigger scale" of things in terms of how they come together to make a picture. I'm talking rule of thirds, etc (which I know next to nothing about!). Phantom coach: glad you liked it! I stared at that one for hours and.. you know when you look and look and stop seeing? Yeah. haha. Raeyu: haha, thanks. Phantom coach: good point. The only problem is, I don't know how dark to go before the entire picture is dark and there's no good balance between light and dark! .. this is how I feel about composition generally! Do you think maybe I should make the light brighter to make up for it? Maybe put more smoke in that big square of blackness at the bottom left? I dunno! Forest: good call. At least two other people have also mentioned the going thinner and then thicker. I put it down to stylistic, but if everyone notices it then it's evidently too far even for stylistic! Thanks! Dresses - Yeah, I was debating how much shading I should do for the underside. On one hand I wanted it to be saturated and slightly transparent (as I think I achieved on the left field where one of the hands is holding the dress up - the sun is shining through the underside of the dress). On the other, not everything can have transparency, especially when it's several layers! Yeah probably my second attempt at a full dress so I'm still clutching at straws. What I have done is stared at probably thousands of photos of dresses for the last few months to try and understand how dresses look. (I definitely haven't figured it out yet.) You might benefit from doing the same! Some more. Finished (made at around the same time as the forest scene)  Scribble (most recent)  Not sure what this would be. Did this for a friend who is on holiday at the moment in Australia (erased the words for the purpose of this forum though smile )
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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:08 pm
"love is"  no references used for this one. someone tell me what i could improve on please? And the tiara looks kind of plasticky and out of place - any hints anyone? (I suspect it's something to do with speculars.) thanks everyone for your contributions smile
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Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:06 pm
The bottom folds of dress at her feet and legs looks absolutely gorgeous! The only things that I feel looks a bit strange is the cloth folds of her sleeve on the right arm [particularly the area where her arm is bent] and the thickness of her neck appears to be a little much.
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:00 pm
eesh forgot to check here til i made something else heh. thanks for your crit Danaidae smile a little different this time. Usually I spend ages on a piece but this was just just line, colour, dodge, shade. Some random swishiness makes a background.  (from a game called Astaria) as always feedback/constructive crit appreciated.
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:14 am
Gosh haven't posted here in a while! there will be a bit of a backlog so lol whatever will work backwards smile Today:   please critique anything at all that you think could improve my depiction, especially the following categories: - composition - anatomy - value (level of shading) - any examples that you can think of that would be helpful am not at home but will post the others when i have them smile
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:53 am
No critique today, just a comment of the first of the two new pics is REALLY bright and hurts my eyes with the brightness, very pretty all together though ^-^
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:45 pm
Raeyu Itami No critique today, just a comment of the first of the two new pics is REALLY bright and hurts my eyes with the brightness, very pretty all together though ^-^ hehe, thanks, it's actually just white (like the background of most Gaia threads) so don't worry your eyesight is not actually being damaged, unless normal Gaia threads are damaging your eyesight too. The difference is that I am using a dodge-type tool to go from white-PINK-purple to imitate what is perceived as a highly glowy effect in real life. woohoo colour theory smile still trying to improve on it though...obviously i should tone it back if i don't want people to feel like their eyes are hurting! I have done some previous pictures using a less fantastical use of the glowy thing, such as the girl with the blue dress. I hit white (highest value) with that picture as well, so that may have seemed to hurt your eyes too.
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:55 pm
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:53 am
I'm not sure what's going on in that last one. Is that supposed to be a reflection in a lake? (I don't want to critique without knowing what you wanted as your outcome.)
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Errol McGillivray Captain
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Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:32 pm
Heh, yeah, it was, and I knew I was supposed to do ripples of some sort (and vertical spread?) but didn't know how the water was supposed to run.
How should I make it more lakelike?
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:49 am
I like to suggest that people get reference or go out and look at things themselves. (There is a lake/pond up the road, but it's not night, or I'd run down and take a picture.) Don't draw the reference. Instead, take notes. Spend at least 10 minutes really analyzing what you're looking at and jot down traits you see there. In the process, you've memorized the traits, and it's something that's kind of universal to the kind of thing you're doing, so you'll be less likely to have to rely heavily on reference in the future. (Still have it, but you don't need it as a crutch.) I like to get at least 2 or 3 and compare.   It looks like you have a lake with still water. (Which I think works a lot better for you because you want to actually see the image.) The things I notice right away are the reflections. 1- They are symmetrical with the elements on the other side. 2- There is only slight blur and distortion on the water. 3- The sky seems darker and more saturated in the reflection.  In your image, there are some decisions you have to make. Your staging suggests that it's a closer view of a small part of the lake. Because of this, it's hard to tell where the horizon is. (We should be able to tell even if it's not in frame.) The difference between the ground and sky and all the elements on the ground need to be clearly expressed. That should help establish where the water's surface is and helps with perspective. So, is she under the lake? Because if it's a reflection, then her feet will be closer to the viewer, and she's upside down. Unless you had something else in mind. Let me know. I don't want to misinterpret what you're doing and tell you useless stuff.
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Errol McGillivray Captain
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:52 pm
Eeeh smile Thanks so much Errol!! The saturation thing is exactly what I was missing. i was trying to think in terms of general distance=desaturation but i guess that doesn't apply when it's sky relative to reflection!
those photos have been really helpful. have been bugging myself to get a camera (somehow i have managed all this time by surviving on stock, but it's so much effort to get the lighting/parameters you need for your particular art "problem")... no menies yet. smile .
i will probably leave the piece as it stands for future reference, but now i finally know what to do with ripples that don't have an obvious specular. many thanks!!
edit: i have saved your notes to my computer, if you don't mind? i imagine they will be very helpful in future smile i seem to draw quite a few water scenes for no reason in particular.
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