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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 1:47 am
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During my usual trawling of current political events, at home and abroad, I happened across this.
What exactly is this, you might ask? It is a lexicon of types of extremism released and declassified by the DHS.
Now, most pages are filled with the usual hard to comprehend jibber-jabber that bureaucracy is wont to churn out of an average day. However, I would draw one's attention to this specific excerpt on page 7.
Quote: (U) racial Nordic mysticism (U//FOUO) An ideology adopted by many white supremacist prison gangs who embrace a Norse mythological religion, such as Odinism or Asatru. (also: Odinism, Asatru)
Yup, apparently Asatruar are predisposed to be extremists now because some prison ******** are part of that religion. Seems a bit odd that they'd throw in this guilt by association and not throw in "Christianity" since a ******** load of white supremacists out there are Christian.
Also, I'd like to quickly note that the majority of the groups stated explicitly include a statement that these extremist groups directly include racist, violent, or anti-government views and actions as a matter of course, and yet, for some reason, this particular part does not.
I mean, I can accept that they may indeed be using a government "in-term" that deals directly with the extreme racial views that these people hold, but why include the (also: Odinism, Asatru) at the end if that was their intent?
I find this truly outrageous, truly truly truly outrageous. ninja
Now, is this thing just poorly written leading to miscommunication, discriminatory, or am I just developing a slight persecution complex? ninja
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 5:03 am
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 5:21 am
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 5:38 am
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 5:48 am
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 6:10 am
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 6:22 am
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maenad nuri Look at the wording though: It makes it fairly clear that the extremists are the white supremacists in prison . Which isn't always true, but it's a fairly clear us versus them. But it's really nothing knew. When I working in recycling I cleaned up the university police station. They had a listing of common racist symbols. Norse ones featured prominatly on them. This wasn't really a horrible thing, since within an hours drive there are several prominent white supremacist groups, but still.
Fair enough, the problem I have is the (also: ) bit, the way it's used in other ones makes it clear that they're subsects/synonyms for what's being discussed. That's the troubling part, they seem, at first glance at least, to be equivocating Asatru with white supremacist ideology. Normally I wouldn't be worried about it, maybe roll my eyes and get on with things, but we all know how literally the government can choose to interpret things when it serves their purposes.... ninja
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 9:41 am
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 9:48 am
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 10:40 am
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 12:13 pm
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 6:27 pm
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Ok guys, just to point it out, my problem isn't with whether the government thinks Asatru is all in the prison system, my problem is that since it's included in an extremist lexicon and worded in such a broad and fuzzy way the DHS could use this in a negative way and it could lead to problems.
Let me give an example. Nicey McNice gets thrown in jail for possession of marijuana, he happens to be Asatruar, so now he's an Asatruar in prison. This could start to cause problems for him either whilst in jail, or after getting out because of the relatively poor wording of that thing. The government could choose to make his parole restrictions stronger because they believe he's got a high disposition towards being a racial supremacist because of his religious beliefs. My problem with all of this crap is that it smells an awful lot like profiling.
And Deo, kindly don't even insinuate that I'm in any way shape or form ******** stare Most people know my stance on them, I'm not here to debate them, I'm here to debate the legitimacy of an entire religion being included in an extremist lexicon just because there's a notable group of ******** extremists in it. This isn't a bait and switch, I'm fine with the government pointing out that the racist white supremacists who use Asatru and the like to justify their bigotry need to be stopped, what I'm not alright with is having Asatru as a whole thrown in an extremist lexicon. Every other one the title is "[Religion] Extremists", but for Asatru it's just, basically, "Asatru".
In short, I've no problem with the government pointing out racist ********, what I have a problem with is the same problem I'd have if the government included "African American" in the lexicon.
Unless of course you'd like to state that my disagreement with the PATRIOT Act is because I'm biased towards terrorists stare
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 10:21 pm
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Cyrus the Elder Ok guys, just to point it out, my problem isn't with whether the government thinks Asatru is all in the prison system, my problem is that since it's included in an extremist lexicon and worded in such a broad and fuzzy way the DHS could use this in a negative way and it could lead to problems. No. They really can't. Bill of Rights and all.
Quote: Let me give an example. Nicey McNice gets thrown in jail for possession of marijuana, he happens to be Asatruar, so now he's an Asatruar in prison. This could start to cause problems for him either whilst in jail, or after getting out because of the relatively poor wording of that thing. The government could choose to make his parole restrictions stronger because they believe he's got a high disposition towards being a racial supremacist because of his religious beliefs. My problem with all of this crap is that it smells an awful lot like profiling. I call bullshit. The reason I call bullshit is because I know of Godhi who work with prison chaplins to ensure the rights of prisoners.
In short- you're having a reactionary response and it's resting on an appeal to potential- without any examples of such happening.
Quote: And Deo, kindly don't even insinuate that I'm in any way shape or form ******** stare I don't see where she did that myself.
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 11:27 pm
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Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 11:39 pm
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TeaDidikai No. They really can't. Bill of Rights and all.
Redacted because I can't remember who I'm actually ******** thinking of and am not going to go around stating stuff that I can't back up.
Quote: I call bullshit. The reason I call bullshit is because I know of Godhi who work with prison chaplins to ensure the rights of prisoners. In short- you're having a reactionary response and it's resting on an appeal to potential- without any examples of such happening.
So, you have to wait until annoyingly vague government policy and the like is misused to point out that it could conceivably be easily misused? confused
Quote: I don't see where she did that myself.
Then what "bias" do I have that would cause me to deflect away from racists and attack those attacking racists?
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