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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:57 am
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Mahi_Kali Gerald Gardner himself was a student of Aleister Crowley Gardner was a student of a lot of folks.
Quote: If Crowley hadnt Done so many of his writings the world of the occult would be much less than it is today Really? I ask because last I checked, English speaking countries didn't have the monopoly on the Occult. Besides, Leland, Regardi etc? I mean- hello.
The guy founded one tradition. An interesting one, but he isn't the beginning and end of Western Occultism. Important? Sure. But you're blowing it out of proportion.
Quote: Often peoples reasoning of disdain are He was racist/sexist Well who wasnt back then Walter White, Susan Anthony, Elizabeth Stanton, TRM Howard, Edgar Nixon, Philip Randolf... want me to go on?
Quote: Regardless of what people think of him He has been a invalueble contributer to the occult I can place a value on him. He generated one theological system- one that may well have been developed by others in his era given the rise of the Spiritualist Movements, the fall of the Hellfire Club era and the like.
Quote: Not only does this site give info on astral travel Which is prohibited in my tradition.No it doesn't. confused
This isn't going to end well is it?
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:45 pm
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:47 pm
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:39 pm
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:28 pm
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:26 am
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~barely repressed rage-spasm~ ~composes self~ ~sighs wearily~
Crowley revolutionized will-working. However, as far as actual research goes, he was even more baneful to contextual studies than his hellfire club, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, which, if you haven't done your history studies, was a group of eclectic cultural rapists. Mind you, what they did was par for the course in their nation and time period, but the fact that they are referenced as a sourcing tradition to this day means they augth be examined using all the standards of kodern scholarship.
Seriously kids, these guys weren't scholars, they were a Hellfire club. If you don't know what that is, then use the interwebs (and i know you have at least a few of them if you can read this) and educate yourself. Google and Wikipedia are good places to start.
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:33 am
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Fiddlers Green ~barely repressed rage-spasm~ ~composes self~ ~sighs wearily~ Crowley revolutionized will-working. However, as far as actual research goes, he was even more baneful to contextual studies than his hellfire club, the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, which, if you haven't done your history studies, was a group of eclectic cultural rapists. Mind you, what they did was par for the course in their nation and time period, but the fact that they are referenced as a sourcing tradition to this day means they augth be examined using all the standards of kodern scholarship. Seriously kids, these guys weren't scholars, they were a Hellfire club. If you don't know what that is, then use the interwebs (and i know you have at least a few of them if you can read this) and educate yourself. Google and Wikipedia are good places to start.
I see. Would you say researching Crowley, Thelema, or Golden Dawn, is a waste of time, or would you say to take their ideas with a grain of salt, in particular where they draw cultural inspiration?
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:29 am
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Sophist, I always say people should never summon something they can't control. I don't worship beings I can command. Also, it may seem insulting to most gods I know.
Asahi Sara I see. Would you say researching Crowley, Thelema, or Golden Dawn, is a waste of time, or would you say to take their ideas with a grain of salt, in particular where they draw cultural inspiration? Crowley did interesting stuff, his scholarship was just really weak. Research him, but don't take any of his own claims of research at face value. Thelema predates Crowley by alot. Research there should be enlightening. It will open your eyes to the world of Hermetic plagiarism. the Golden Dawn is worth researching, if for nothing more than a how not to borrow from cultures. Also, they are a historically interesting group, much like the Masons of their day. Basically, be critical and skeptical of their findings, learn from outside sources, and take everything with the great Salt Flats of Utah. wink
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:45 am
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Fiddlers Green Sophist, I always say people should never summon something they can't control. I don't worship beings I can command. Also, it may seem insulting to most gods I know. Asahi Sara I see. Would you say researching Crowley, Thelema, or Golden Dawn, is a waste of time, or would you say to take their ideas with a grain of salt, in particular where they draw cultural inspiration? Crowley did interesting stuff, his scholarship was just really weak. Research him, but don't take any of his own claims of research at face value. Thelema predates Crowley by alot. Research there should be enlightening. It will open your eyes to the world of Hermetic plagiarism. the Golden Dawn is worth researching, if for nothing more than a how not to borrow from cultures. Also, they are a historically interesting group, much like the Masons of their day. Basically, be critical and skeptical of their findings, learn from outside sources, and take everything with the great Salt Flats of Utah. wink
I try to do that almost anywhere i look really, but I find myself more interested in Crowley's personal ideas, than his scholarly background. Still it would be good to know from where he drew those ideas or claimed to. At any rate further Thelema research is on my to do list, but its not really next on the list. As far as OP goes, having been influenced by Crowley in and of itself, is not a bad thing, just remember not everyone here practices Thelema. Perhaps OP should post this in his pathways thread and why Crowley was influential towards himself?
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:51 am
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Asahi Sara I try to do that almost anywhere i look really, but I find myself more interested in Crowley's personal ideas, than his scholarly background. Still it would be good to know from where he drew those ideas or claimed to. At any rate further Thelema research is on my to do list, but its not really next on the list. As far as OP goes, having been influenced by Crowley in and of itself, is not a bad thing, just remember not everyone here practices Thelema. Perhaps OP should post this in his pathways thread and why Crowley was influential towards himself? Actually, where Crowley got some of his ideas is a very valid thing to be curious about. Seriously, I almost want to say he was running on nearly pure Gnosis, or direct inspiration, knowledge gained without learning. He was a fascinating person. Best of fortune in your research.
As for discussing Thelema, it is good, from time to time to have one of these out in the open so the person can see the general reaction. Some people don't know magic existed before the Golden Dawn, some don't understand that some of their practices are anathema to other traditions. Ignorance can be easily remedied when many minds work together. 3nodding
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:26 am
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:35 am
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Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:17 pm
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