What is marriage?

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

So, in God's eyes, what is marriage? Is marriage the actual commitment, or is marriage the ceremony? What Bible verses support your thoughts? I think this is an important question, because how we answer it influences how we think about and react to topics such as gay marriage and premarital sex, and also marriage itself.

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[freelance lover]

This is gonna be long guys... I've been thinking about this a lot recently.

This is actually a question I've been asking myself pretty frequently. I may just be going through a questioning phase in my faith, which is perfectly fine, but I've been seriously considering what exactly constitutes marriage.

Our concept of marriage, and to an extent virginity, is extremely different than it was in Biblical times. People married much younger, and marriages were often arranged. The bride and groom often had little or no say in who they married. It was often more a marriage of convenience than love. Virginity also played an interesting role. If a woman was not a virgin, even by means of rape, it was difficult if not impossible to marry her off. Some OT laws even say that if the woman was raped, she should be married to her rapist.

I've often seen marriage as the actual sex act. There are multiple verses that imply that if a man and woman have sex, they are then married in the eyes of the Lord. That is one of the defenses for waiting for marriage you hear frequently- if you have sex before marriage, and then later have another partner you are technically committing adultery. So my view has generally been that sex is what consummates the marriage, and the wedding ceremony is just an outward celebration and display of the union.

I've been kicking around the idea that premarital sex is not inherently bad, if done in the right circumstances. I think, ideally, everyone should have only one sexual partner within their lives. But even if you wait for marriage, there's still no garuntee of that. My mother, for instance, has been married twice. Also, if a person is widowed at a young age there's a good chance of remarriage.

I've always been aware that not everyone has the same beliefs, so I've always been accepting of premarital sex among others so long as they have been in a long term committed and healthy relationship, love one another, and intend to stay together. Paul says that if you cannot resist, you should get married but I personally think that's horrible advice. Just because you feel ready for sex, doesn't mean you're ready for marriage. I've seen couple get married so they can have sex within marriage and they obviously got married way too soon.

I'm not full convinced premarital sex is a sin, but I'm not full convinced it isn't either. I think, in the end, it comes down to how one defines marriage. If marriage is the actual sex act or the commitment, then technically people can be married in the eyes of God without the ceremony and legal liscence, and sex is a-okay. But if marriage is only recognized by God during a ceremony in a church with the whole nine yards, then you run into some problems.

Sorry for the lack of verses, I'm having a difficult time finding them. As soon as I do, I'll post them. And sorry that was so long sweatdrop  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

You've just summed up everything I've been pondering regarding sex and marriage. xd heart  

[Stargirl8480]

I've been thinking a lot about this too actually, and I'm pretty sure I'm probably gonna wait for marriage. Not necessarily because I think it's a sin, but my youth pastor talked to me about this once...
he said, if you take a piece of duck tape and tape it onto stuff, and tape it onto something else, and take that piece and tape it onto something else... it begins to lose its sticky-ness. But if you stick it onto ONE surface, it's pretty hard to take it off.
He said that it's the same thing with relationships. If we keep on having multiple partners, our committment in a relationship keeps dwindling down until it's almost nothing. But if we save ourselves for one person, we'll be so fully committed that it's super hard to break that bond.
And that might just be why there's such a high divorce rate these days.  

[freelance lover]

Stargirl8480

I've been thinking a lot about this too actually, and I'm pretty sure I'm probably gonna wait for marriage. Not necessarily because I think it's a sin, but my youth pastor talked to me about this once...
he said, if you take a piece of duck tape and tape it onto stuff, and tape it onto something else, and take that piece and tape it onto something else... it begins to lose its sticky-ness. But if you stick it onto ONE surface, it's pretty hard to take it off.
He said that it's the same thing with relationships. If we keep on having multiple partners, our committment in a relationship keeps dwindling down until it's almost nothing. But if we save ourselves for one person, we'll be so fully committed that it's super hard to break that bond.
And that might just be why there's such a high divorce rate these days.

Yeah, I've been rethinking this too. I realized I made the choice to wait for marriage when I was 12 or 13, when I had no perspective on love, relationships, or sex. I just agreed to that because, at the time the logic seemed good and it was kind of expected of me. As I get older though, and sex becomes a more likely event, I need to reexamine my beliefs.

I don't know that I'll necessarily wait until marriage anymore. I think it would depend on the circumstances. But if I had a commitment from the guy that he intended to marry me eventually, but the timing was off (like we're both still in school, etc) I don't know that I'd be opposed to it. Ideally, I'd like to have only one sexual partner in my life and I don't know that I'd be comfortable with sex unless I had that kind of commitment from him. For that commitment, I feel like you'd have to be together for at least a year anyway, so there would also have to be some base to your relationship. I kind of view sex on the same level as marriage, just without all the formalities.  

[Stargirl8480]

freelance lover

Stargirl8480

I've been thinking a lot about this too actually, and I'm pretty sure I'm probably gonna wait for marriage. Not necessarily because I think it's a sin, but my youth pastor talked to me about this once...
he said, if you take a piece of duck tape and tape it onto stuff, and tape it onto something else, and take that piece and tape it onto something else... it begins to lose its sticky-ness. But if you stick it onto ONE surface, it's pretty hard to take it off.
He said that it's the same thing with relationships. If we keep on having multiple partners, our committment in a relationship keeps dwindling down until it's almost nothing. But if we save ourselves for one person, we'll be so fully committed that it's super hard to break that bond.
And that might just be why there's such a high divorce rate these days.

Yeah, I've been rethinking this too. I realized I made the choice to wait for marriage when I was 12 or 13, when I had no perspective on love, relationships, or sex. I just agreed to that because, at the time the logic seemed good and it was kind of expected of me. As I get older though, and sex becomes a more likely event, I need to reexamine my beliefs.

I don't know that I'll necessarily wait until marriage anymore. I think it would depend on the circumstances. But if I had a commitment from the guy that he intended to marry me eventually, but the timing was off (like we're both still in school, etc) I don't know that I'd be opposed to it. Ideally, I'd like to have only one sexual partner in my life and I don't know that I'd be comfortable with sex unless I had that kind of commitment from him. For that commitment, I feel like you'd have to be together for at least a year anyway, so there would also have to be some base to your relationship. I kind of view sex on the same level as marriage, just without all the formalities.

That makes sense. I'm not positive I'm gonna wait for marriage but it seems the better way. Also, I'm a very sentimental person, and I want my wedding night to be perfect haha. sweatdrop  

[freelance lover]

Stargirl8480

freelance lover

Stargirl8480

I've been thinking a lot about this too actually, and I'm pretty sure I'm probably gonna wait for marriage. Not necessarily because I think it's a sin, but my youth pastor talked to me about this once...
he said, if you take a piece of duck tape and tape it onto stuff, and tape it onto something else, and take that piece and tape it onto something else... it begins to lose its sticky-ness. But if you stick it onto ONE surface, it's pretty hard to take it off.
He said that it's the same thing with relationships. If we keep on having multiple partners, our committment in a relationship keeps dwindling down until it's almost nothing. But if we save ourselves for one person, we'll be so fully committed that it's super hard to break that bond.
And that might just be why there's such a high divorce rate these days.

Yeah, I've been rethinking this too. I realized I made the choice to wait for marriage when I was 12 or 13, when I had no perspective on love, relationships, or sex. I just agreed to that because, at the time the logic seemed good and it was kind of expected of me. As I get older though, and sex becomes a more likely event, I need to reexamine my beliefs.

I don't know that I'll necessarily wait until marriage anymore. I think it would depend on the circumstances. But if I had a commitment from the guy that he intended to marry me eventually, but the timing was off (like we're both still in school, etc) I don't know that I'd be opposed to it. Ideally, I'd like to have only one sexual partner in my life and I don't know that I'd be comfortable with sex unless I had that kind of commitment from him. For that commitment, I feel like you'd have to be together for at least a year anyway, so there would also have to be some base to your relationship. I kind of view sex on the same level as marriage, just without all the formalities.

That makes sense. I'm not positive I'm gonna wait for marriage but it seems the better way. Also, I'm a very sentimental person, and I want my wedding night to be perfect haha. sweatdrop

I know exactly what you mean. I've sometimes wondered if I have sex with the person now, will I regret not waiting until my wedding night? Even if it's the same guy?

Although my friend once told me that most couples don't even have sex on the wedding night, because they're so exhausted from the whole ordeal! I don't know how true that is though. I find it really amusing though.  

[Stargirl8480]

Hah, gofigure. Or even if they weren't exhausted, wouldn't they just be too hyper to be 'in the mood' ?? haha.

I think if it was one guy, and one guy only, it's not really a sin...I think. But you can't ever really be sure if you're gonna be with the same guy until you're married, or pretty close to your wedding night... Cause even if you get engaged, engagements break off all the time.  

[freelance lover]

Stargirl8480

Hah, gofigure. Or even if they weren't exhausted, wouldn't they just be too hyper to be 'in the mood' ?? haha.

I think if it was one guy, and one guy only, it's not really a sin...I think. But you can't ever really be sure if you're gonna be with the same guy until you're married, or pretty close to your wedding night... Cause even if you get engaged, engagements break off all the time.

Yeah, but even once you're married there's still no garuntee, which is sad, but true :/

Of course, I'm also concerned that if I didn't have sex with someone I really loved, I'd end up regretting that, even if it didn't work out later down the road. Though I think I could rationalize that with "it just wasn't meant to be". And I also have a completely irrational anxiety that if I have sex, I'll end up marrying a virgin and if I didn't the guy I married wouldn't have waited. I've just always wanted to lose my virginity to a fellow virgin :/

I've clearly put way too much thought into this.  

[Ixor Firebadger]

Heheh, well, I kinda messed that one up already. We'd been together for 5 years and had discussed getting married. In fact, he had been very close to asking a few times, or so he said. After about 8 years, I was still waiting for him to man up and do it. And then he told me he wasn't sure. I figured if he hadn't put a ring on my finger after all those years and everything we went through-and everything I carried him through-he was never going to.

Jerk...

Anywho, I think we might be getting a bit off-topic, the question is not whether you should wait until marriage to have sex, but what establishes that commitment in the first place and what purpose does everything else play. Can you be considered married if you simply share the commitment and your bodies without the ceremony or is the ceremony that important.

I kind of noticed while I was living with that boyfriend (yeah, I was, we were in separate rooms and just friends at the time I moved in-that was an incredibly complicated relationship -_-; ), I thought of him as a husband. I treated him like one. The issue only arose when I started to wonder if he shared the same commitment.

Maybe the ceremony is something that WE have to do as humans, so that we know that both partners are equally committed to the union? But then, it really doesn't end up making any difference anyway because people take divorce so lightly, these days...  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

It might be similar to many other ceremonies and rituals that you find in Christianity- baptism for example. Do you need to be baptized to be saved? If we're going to use Jesus' own example of Him being the Bridegroom and the Church being the bride, then baptism is the wedding. But all that's necessary to initiate that relationship is the genuine decision we make in our hearts- the ceremony is not necessary. Could the same be said of earthly marriages?  

[Xandris]

About two years into our relationship, my (now ex) wife and I started referring to each other as if we were married, and meant it. I fully believe that we were married in the eyes of God before any paperwork. I also know that my next marriage will feel the same way.

In the OT, there isn't very much mention of ceremony or documentation. It was just sort of agreed upon by all parties (husband, wife, and parents of the woman, sometimes the parents of the man). I think that the ceremonies came from a change in society, and the paperwork came from having benefits to becoming legally married. But I think that the people that have a happy relationship spanning 20 years or more are just as married as anyone who goes through the legal procedure, at least in the eyes of God.  

[freelance lover]

I like Fushigi's comparison to Baptism. From what I've seen, marriage is basically a means of celebrating a couples love for one another, as well as getting some nice tax benefits. I mean, I know a few couples that have been together since they were 15 or 16, and started having sex in college. It doesn't really bother me, since we're all convinced they'll end up getting married anyway. If the commitment is there, you should need a legal document there to determine how you express your love for one another.

Although, I think it's also important that if one or both parties feel their relationship with God will be damaged by sex, then they should abstain until marriage. It's in the same way Paul tells the early Christians that if they feel their relationship with God will be hurt by breaking OT laws, they should continue to follow them even though Jesus' sacrifice negated the need for them.  

[Priestley]

I would give my opinion, but I'd feel like I was repeating what I or someone else has already said.

I'm sure we've had a thread on this issue before. What happened to it?  

[Monergism]

And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?" Jesus answered, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate." ~ Matthew 19:3-6

Marriage is a intimate and complementing union between a man and a woman in which the two become one physically, in the whole of life. God brings a man and a woman together in marriage (Matt 19:6). It is not humankind's preragative to separate what God has chosen to put together (Matt 19:6). "One flesh" (Gen 2:24) involves the unity of the whole person: purpose, physical, and life-a unity whereby the two become a new, God-designed, balanced life. They counterbalance each others strengths and weaknesses. Sexually the two become "one flesh" physically as reflected in their offspring. Becoming "one flesh" is used in Scripture for the consummating sexual act of marriage. God's ideal exclusiveness of the "one flesh" relationship disallows any other relationship: homosexuality, polygamy, adultery, premarital sex, concubinage, incest, bestiality, cultic prostitution. These and other sexual perversions violate the "oneness" of the marriage relationship and were often punishable by death (Lev 20:1-19; Deut 22:13-27; Rom 1:26-32).

The purpose of marriage is to reflect the relationship of the Godhead and to serve him. The relational aspect of God's image is reflected in the bringing together of male and female in "one flesh" (Gen 1:27; 2:21-24). This oneness with sexual differences portrays various aspects of God's image: same nature and essence, equal members, intimate relationship, common purpose, and distinct personalities with different roles, including authority and submission. In the Trinity the Father leads, the Son submits to the Father, and the Holy Spirit submits to both the Father and the Son. However, all three are fully and equally deity. Likewise, male and female in the marriage relationship are of the same nature and essence, equal as persons (Gal 3:28 ), intimate in relationship, common in purpose, but distinct personalities with different roles: the husband leads and the wife submits to his leadership (Eph 5:31). The covenant analogy attests the commitment between two married partners (Prov 2:17; Mal 2:14). Emphasis is upon an agreement, a commitment, not upon an analogy of conditionality and unconditionality of some biblical covenants that would extend the marriage covenant analogy beyond its expected scope. This marriage commitment, and faithfulness to it, preclude sexual relations with anyone except one's spouse (Exod 20:14; Lev. 18,20; Rom 1:24-27).

Without the fall, probably no one would have ever been single. Perfect people would have yielded perfect marriages. Sin brought flaws in humans that sometimes make it difficult to find or sustain a suitable marriage relationship. Being single for life is an exception and, therefore, is declared to be a gift from God (1 Cor 7:7). The fall made human hearts hard toward God and toward each other. The relational aspect of God's image became marred. Rebellion against submission to male leadership was Satan's initial temptation (Gen 3:1-6, 17; Eph 5:33; 1 Peter 3:1). Male domination and harshness crept into leadership (Col 3:19; 1 Peter 3:7). Sin caused polygamy, concubinage, incest, adultery, rape, prostitution, and all kinds of immorality (Lev. 18, 20; Rom 1:26-32) to damage or destroy the marriage relationship. Marriage commitments are violated. Divorce, premarital sex, and couples living together out of wedlock would never have occurred had not sin entered the world. The fall severely damaged the marriage relationship.