From Our Roots

[Cunning Witch Angus]

Wassail!

This question has been itching at my brain for a while, and I kind of have an answer to it, but I kind of don't. So, here it goes.

Most magical practices that we practice in the States seem to come from Britain. Why? Why does everything I know about magic stem from out of Britain? The answer to this at first seemed quite simple: Duh, they're practically next door neighbors, we get almost everything from them. But why does it all come from Britain, other than the fact that it is a place famous for mysterious happenings and magical phenomena (Merlin, Arthurian Legends, Crowley, Gardner, the Druids etc).

Where did it come from before Britain? Did the pagans there discover it themselves and the monks just Christianize it all? Or was there some other way of knowing?

Right now I am reading The Way of Wyrd which is a work of fiction but was meant to be a work of non-fiction. The author attempts to recreate Anglo-Saxon sorcery through the eyes of a Christian who also learns the Anglo-Saxon ways. Where did it come from before that? Or is that something we will never know.

Through my readings of Peter Paddon and Ann Finnin and Robert Cochrane one who practices witchcraft must connect to their ancestors. Because America is one big melting pot, this isn't that hard to do, but we mostly stem from Britain or even the Anglo-Saxon area in general! Why were they so attuned to the mystical happenings of their homeland that almost everything we know on magic stems from them.

And then I looked a bit harder and realized that a lot of our Ceremonial Magics come from the Judaism Mysteries of the Kabalah. But the magic I use doesn't seem to branch from that. What did the witches in Scotland and England and Ireland practice? Was it an ancient form of shamanism specific to the Anglo-Saxon ways? Or was Isabel Gowdie off her rocker?

Thank you for any and all responses.

Be Whole!
Angus  

[Recursive Paradox]

My magical practices don't come from Britain so it isn't really a topic I've looked into. Sorry?

Do most of American magical practices actually come from Britain? Or just most of the really well known ones? I mean where would their be an accurate idea of how many of our practices actually do come from Britain or whether the impression is a false one?  

[Cunning Witch Angus]

Recursive Paradox

My magical practices don't come from Britain so it isn't really a topic I've looked into. Sorry?

Do most of American magical practices actually come from Britain? Or just most of the really well known ones? I mean where would their be an accurate idea of how many of our practices actually do come from Britain or whether the impression is a false one?

I think it is more of the popular ones.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me like they all come from the Anglo-Saxon areas.

Correct me please O.O  

[Recursive Paradox]

Angus of the Crooked Way

Recursive Paradox

My magical practices don't come from Britain so it isn't really a topic I've looked into. Sorry?

Do most of American magical practices actually come from Britain? Or just most of the really well known ones? I mean where would their be an accurate idea of how many of our practices actually do come from Britain or whether the impression is a false one?

I think it is more of the popular ones.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me like they all come from the Anglo-Saxon areas.

Correct me please O.O

I asked because I wasn't sure myself. I've been working so heavily on my own system that I haven't had a lot of time to look into the other ones already around.  

[Gho the Girl]

Angus of the Crooked Way

Recursive Paradox

My magical practices don't come from Britain so it isn't really a topic I've looked into. Sorry?

Do most of American magical practices actually come from Britain? Or just most of the really well known ones? I mean where would their be an accurate idea of how many of our practices actually do come from Britain or whether the impression is a false one?

I think it is more of the popular ones.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me like they all come from the Anglo-Saxon areas.

Correct me please O.O

I'd love to see some sort of data. Maybe a listing of all the "popular" paths that you know of, and then showing how many of them originate or trace back to Britain.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Might it have to do with the fact that many of the first immigrants to North America were from that region of Europe?
Just my idea... sweatdrop  

[TeaDidikai]

Angus of the Crooked Way

Most magical practices that we practice in the States seem to come from Britain.

News to me. I figured most of what we were seeing in the US was a byproduct of a handful of European reconstructionalists compounded by new theologies that were brought into existence through eclecticism with a heavy influence of mysticism by way of Ceremonial Magic.

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Why? Why does everything I know about magic stem from out of Britain?

Because the scope of your research is limited. 3nodding

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The answer to this at first seemed quite simple: Duh, they're practically next door neighbors, we get almost everything from them. But why does it all come from Britain, other than the fact that it is a place famous for mysterious happenings and magical phenomena (Merlin, Arthurian Legends, Crowley, Gardner, the Druids etc).

Speaking as someone to whom those things are pretty spiritually irrelevant, I have no idea why your personal influences stem so greatly from the modern pagan movement which idolized Arthurian mythology after the Mists of Avalon was published compounded by the influence of the Golden Dawn and modern Occultism.

I couldn't possibly fathom why the people who revolutionized a specific field of magic which you have a tenuous connection with could have possibly influenced you- and it certainly doesn't have anything to do with the fact that at the turn of the century they were the major players in the Occult and Mysticism within your native tongue- and seeing as the printing press enabled dissemination of printed materials and literacy was fostered under it... Oh. Never mind.

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Where did it come from before Britain? Did the pagans there discover it themselves and the monks just Christianize it all? Or was there some other way of knowing?

To be blunt- this is a product not of the magical traditions of the world, but of your scope and personal interest. My personal book collection includes one journal, some translation guides, info on Jewish and Christian theology, some books about the modern pagan movement and a crap ton of source texts.

I also have a few Eastern Trad things thanks to my husband's interests.

Quote:

Right now I am reading The Way of Wyrd which is a work of fiction but was meant to be a work of non-fiction. The author attempts to recreate Anglo-Saxon sorcery through the eyes of a Christian who also learns the Anglo-Saxon ways. Where did it come from before that? Or is that something we will never know.

To be blunt, I have no idea what you are asking here.

Brittany was awash with different groups when it's political figures were undergoing the conversion that would lead to State Conversion.
Are you asking for an in depth understanding of all these different groups and their pre-Christian theologies?

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Through my readings of Peter Paddon and Ann Finnin and Robert Cochrane one who practices witchcraft must connect to their ancestors.

Poppy c**k. Witchcraft is a style of magic. It isn't limited to ancestor traditions, nor to paganism.

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Because America is one big melting pot, this isn't that hard to do, but we mostly stem from Britain or even the Anglo-Saxon area in general!

We do?

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Why were they so attuned to the mystical happenings of their homeland that almost everything we know on magic stems from them.

We? Almost everything we know?

Quote:

And then I looked a bit harder and realized that a lot of our Ceremonial Magics come from the Judaism Mysteries of the Kabalah. But the magic I use doesn't seem to branch from that.

Ummmm...
I wouldn't place odds on that.

Describe a sample ritual from start to finish.

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What did the witches in Scotland and England and Ireland practice?

The Gael didn't have witches. stare

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Was it an ancient form of shamanism specific to the Anglo-Saxon ways?

I'd be impressed if the Anglo-Saxon people had somehow in ancient times managed to study under and become Holy People of nomadic East Asian peoples.

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Be Whole!

HOW DARE YOU LEVEL A CURSE LIKE THAT AT ME!
Take it back. Now.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Well, methinks that it has to do with the faddish modern mystic group of the day: Wicca claiming to be rooted in that sort of area. Wicca has many imitators, many slipshot ones who co-opt the name. Some of them bother to claim that their origin is the same.

Beyound that, linguistic ties effect what crops up in popular literature and media.

Add a dash of the islands being mayhaps just a bit more isloated from continental Europe that they may have held some fo their traditions just a bit longer in the face of the societal alterations that spread with Roman Christianity... Now, mind you, this also makes a strong case for the Uppsala inheritors.

However, in the U.S., the push to Anglicize, especially in times of duress, such as the War Twixt the States, and both world Wars, possibly contributed to the loss of some cultural quips from other places.

Oh, that, and many of the newer people to This Land really can't be bothered to learn anything about the mystical practices of the People who already lived here when they arrived. There are, for those who are willing to ask with honesty and humility, first hand sources on other magics. Magics that are far closer tied to the land here. I heartily suggest that everyone at least try to make good with the gods of the region they live in. I mean, really, is it so much to ask when you come into someone else's home and take over, to at least remember them once in awhile.  

[saint dreya]

Angus of the Crooked Way

Most magical practices that we practice in the States seem to come from Britain.

where do you live? no honestly, because i would thoroughly take a look at the population; their socioeconomic status, their race, heritage and religion.

*disclaimer* from my experience*/disclaimer*, those who are of middle class and some lower, a Northern European descent, and bordering Christian/former and/or practicing pagan generally tend to take from a Northern European (Britain or Anglo-Saxon) influence because they are the most widely publicized (Tea has wonderfully pointed out a few names of the big wigs that have brought certain movements/paths to the mainstream), have an emotional connection for one reason or another (wanting to feel special, compelled to "draw upon one's roots", fascination with history, etc), or, and forgive me as this is a generality and not directed at many who are here, because it's purported to be "easy" (ala authors that decide to play mad scientist with facts and cultures).

Angus of the Crooked Way

Why does everything I know about magic stem from out of Britain?

um, most of my practices are attempting to draw on spiritual aspects of Irish and continental Germanic peoples.

Angus of the Crooked Way

But why does it all come from Britain, other than the fact that it is a place famous for mysterious happenings and magical phenomena (Merlin, Arthurian Legends, Crowley, Gardner, the Druids etc).

the Druids were not limited to Britain. they were a class of peoples within the Celtic people, who were as far ranging as Turkey (briefly scanned over page - this map seems to be agreed upon fairly regularly).

Angus of the Crooked Way

Where did it come from before Britain? Did the pagans there discover it themselves and the monks just Christianize it all? Or was there some other way of knowing?

IE studies are teh awesome.

Angus of the Crooked Way

The author attempts to recreate Anglo-Saxon sorcery through the eyes of a Christian who also learns the Anglo-Saxon ways. Where did it come from before that? Or is that something we will never know.

break down the word, you'll see other influences beside Britain - Saxons.  

[Cunning Witch Angus]

I see...well this has helped me a lot thank you very much.

And I was not aware that saying "Be whole" was meant as a curse Tea.

I seem to remember you telling me that little things at the end are just rude or something. Or someone said that. I will refrain from doing so.

I will do more research...hopefully of the correct kind.

Thank you!  

[TeaDidikai]

Angus of the Crooked Way

And I was not aware that saying "Be whole" was meant as a curse Tea.

Might not be to some.

To others, it could be a backhanded assault on oaths wherein they gifted a part of themselves to another, more so if you suggest words have meanings.

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I seem to remember you telling me that little things at the end are just rude or something. Or someone said that. I will refrain from doing so.

I think it could be argued that thoughtless gestures are annoying and can be insulting. Hell, I'm guilty of it.
I did such to a friend once. I think he was half joking about it, but I couldn't say for sure.

Welcome.  

[Recursive Paradox]

I always just say "hi" and "bye".

Hasn't failed me yet. >.>  

[TeaDidikai]

Recursive Paradox

I always just say "hi" and "bye".

Hasn't failed me yet. >.>

I usually don't even say that on a forum.  

[Recursive Paradox]

TeaDidikai

Recursive Paradox

I always just say "hi" and "bye".

Hasn't failed me yet. >.>

I usually don't even say that on a forum.

I used to say "what's up", but decided it wasn't a great greeting after the 80th or some odd time that people notified me of the presence of the ceiling and/or sky.

I figured by then I ought to have learned what was above me.

I get weird at night. o_o  

[TheDisreputableDog]

Angus: the US is more than just white people of European descent. Cultural artifacts that enter the US aren't mediated solely by England, and importation is not the only method by which cultural artifacts appear in the US. You have a whole world of current and historical magical practices to choose from. It's perfectly valid to explore Indo-European practices, or just Anglo-Saxon practices, or whatever it is that you're looking for. But please try to avoid suggesting that everything "we" practice comes from Britain.