Female Pastors

[The_Cursed_Phoenix]

Im sorry if i offend any of you i mean no harm.

well here's what im thinking the bible says "a woman should not be the head over a man" so why are there some that are pastors in church i believe another verse says "a women should not speak in church" now before you go into well then why do women sing in church the Greek language has differant meaning for the word speak than English theirs means something to the effect of to talk AKA they should not read scripture or give sermons in church. so why do some churches have them do that?  

[Priestley]

Curse-of-the-Phoenix

Im sorry if i offend any of you i mean no harm.

well here's what im thinking the bible says "a woman should not be the head over a man" so why are there some that are pastors in church i believe another verse says "a women should not speak in church" now before you go into well then why do women sing in church the Greek language has differant meaning for the word speak than English theirs means something to the effect of to talk AKA they should not read scripture or give sermons in church. so why do some churches have them do that?

You're speaking of Paul's first letter to the church at Corinth (1 Corinthians 11:2-16). Pauls argument is riddled with fallacies and contradictions. For example, saying in 11:6 that women who do not cover their heads should have their hair cut off and those women who have their hair cut off should have their heads covered. In 11:8, he says that woman came from man, then, in 11:12, he says man is born of woman. In the following verse, he basically tells us to think for ourselves on the issue by begging the question.

Jesus has authority over Paul, and he did not discriminate between male and female. Jesus said that there would be no marriage in Heaven because people would be like the angels (sexless/genderless). To the Galatians, Paul also said that people are all one in Christ, that there is neither male nor female, slave nor free, etc.. Since biological sex is primarily a function of reproduction and does not feature in heaven, it should not be an issue that prevents the truth of scripture to be spoken.  

[freelance lover]

In a nuteshell, I believe anyone who feels the call of God to spread his word and his message should be able to, regardless of sex, age, sexuality, race, creed, etc.

I believe that the Bible is to be taken in the context of the time it was written. The way we view many of the subjects addressed within the Bible (marriage, gender roles, hygiene and cleanliness, etc) is so different from how it was 2000 years ago. I believe that we need to understand why those things were put into place in that culture at that time and then apply those principle to today.

This past summer, I felt the call to ministry, specifically seminary, very strongly. I've also had many people tell me I am a good speaker, should be a minister, etc. I realize that that's not my direct route right now, but some day I may feel God pushing me to seminary again. How can I argue with him when that's what he wants? If God commands it, how can we say no?

To put it frankly, I think the idea of women not being able to be ministers or hold positions of authority in the church (or anywhere, for that matter) is an aged and backwards way of thinking, for the reasons I've listed, as well as what Priestly said.  

[Priestley]

freelance lover

To put it frankly, I think the idea of women not being able to be ministers or hold positions of authority in the church (or anywhere, for that matter) is an aged and backwards way of thinking, for the reasons I've listed, as well as what Priestly said.

Well, it's not that I think it's aged or backwards; it's that I think what Paul said came straight out of his Pharisee manual. Paul was a patriarch from a patriarchal society. It's pretty much the only thing he knew. To have asked him let a woman be his equal would have been one step too far for him. To me, that is a sign of insecurity in masculinity.

For society, I think women can and should do what men do if it is their choice to do it and should receive everything a man receives for doing them. Women have minds and wills just as men do and men would be wise to heed what women have to say. After all, we were all born of women. This leads me to say that such an opinion should be valued as we would expect our own opinions to be valued, especially if it is coming from our wives. Ultimately, however, I think that a husband should make the decisions with regard to the family and with those opinions in mind.  

[zz1000zz]

Priestley

Ultimately, however, I think that a husband should make the decisions with regard to the family and with those opinions in mind.

Why?  

[Priestley]

zz1000zz

Priestley

Ultimately, however, I think that a husband should make the decisions with regard to the family and with those opinions in mind.

Why?

Because my father did just that and it worked for our family.

It is coincidence that 1 Corinthians 11:3 agrees. My father isn't a Christian but my mother is. This might have had something to do with why it worked.  

[zz1000zz]

Priestley

zz1000zz

Priestley

Ultimately, however, I think that a husband should make the decisions with regard to the family and with those opinions in mind.

Why?

Because my father did just that and it worked for our family.

I do not see how personal experiences can be used to tell other people how to behave.  

[Priestley]

zz1000zz

Priestley

zz1000zz

Priestley

Ultimately, however, I think that a husband should make the decisions with regard to the family and with those opinions in mind.

Why?

Because my father did just that and it worked for our family.

I do not see how personal experiences can be used to tell other people how to behave.

Not that I am required to defend my position but that I am willing to point out your error, I direct you to the expressions "To me, ..." and "I think ...", which indicate opinion. If you're implying that I had "[told] other people how to behave" in this case, I have not. The accurate and correct statement for you to have used would have been that I had "[told] other people what I think is the correct course of action".  

[freelance lover]

Priestley

freelance lover

To put it frankly, I think the idea of women not being able to be ministers or hold positions of authority in the church (or anywhere, for that matter) is an aged and backwards way of thinking, for the reasons I've listed, as well as what Priestly said.

Well, it's not that I think it's aged or backwards; it's that I think what Paul said came straight out of his Pharisee manual. Paul was a patriarch from a patriarchal society. It's pretty much the only thing he knew. To have asked him let a woman be his equal would have been one step too far for him. To me, that is a sign of insecurity in masculinity.

For society, I think women can and should do what men do if it is their choice to do it and should receive everything a man receives for doing them. Women have minds and wills just as men do and men would be wise to heed what women have to say. After all, we were all born of women. This leads me to say that such an opinion should be valued as we would expect our own opinions to be valued, especially if it is coming from our wives. Ultimately, however, I think that a husband should make the decisions with regard to the family and with those opinions in mind.

I wasn't saying that you think it's aged and backwards, I was just making a point that I agreed with everything you said in addition to what I said. Sorry if I sounded like I was putting words in your mouth, I didn't intend to.

What kind of decisions do you think the husbands should make? I personally think that the husband and wife should make desicions together. I don't think it's ever right for a husband to say "Well, this is how it's going to be, I'm the man." I know there are som circumstances in which this may be best (like is the wife is ill and cannot make reliable desicons herself) but as a rule of thumb I think both partners should make choices together.

Of course, you also said this come out of personal experience. My personal experience was very different, as my father traveled a lot when I was younger so my mom was much more present in my life than he was.  

[zz1000zz]

Priestley

zz1000zz

Priestley

zz1000zz

Priestley

Ultimately, however, I think that a husband should make the decisions with regard to the family and with those opinions in mind.

Why?

Because my father did just that and it worked for our family.

I do not see how personal experiences can be used to tell other people how to behave.

Not that I am required to defend my position but that I am willing to point out your error, I direct you to the expressions "To me, ..." and "I think ...", which indicate opinion. If you're implying that I had "[told] other people how to behave" in this case, I have not. The accurate and correct statement for you to have used would have been that I had "[told] other people what I think is the correct course of action".

You have no ability to force your will upon people, so by telling them what to do you can only tell them what you think they should do. I made no mistake here. I simply did not elaborate on what was inherently implied by my statement.  

[Ixor Firebadger]

God declared that the man should be the head of his household. But I look at it this way, the best leaders are the ones that actually listen to their subordinates as they might actually have something worthwhile and new to bring to the table. In any case, immediately after that, they were told to honor their wives. I think that also means respecting their opinions.

The man should be the head of his household, but that doesn't mean being a control freak. 3nodding .  

[freelance lover]

Ixor-san

God declared that the man should be the head of his household. But I look at it this way, the best leaders are the ones that actually listen to their subordinates as they might actually have something worthwhile and new to bring to the table. In any case, immediately after that, they were told to honor their wives. I think that also means respecting their opinions.

The man should be the head of his household, but that doesn't mean being a control freak. 3nodding .

My inner feminist still disagrees, but if the husbands listen to their wives, it would pretty much amount to the same thing... it's just a matter of perspective I suppose.  

[Gerbil_of_the_Vashness]

I'm all for girl power and everything, but God does point men as the head of household, and--in my opinion--the central spiritual leader.

besides that, one of the qualities i would like my future spouse to have is the ability to take charge.  

[zz1000zz]

To my knowledge, nothing from God suggests women should submit to men. Most, if not all, of the anti-feminism found in the New Testament can be attributed to patriarchal society reinstating its control after Jesus's demise.

If a female wishes to allow her husband to make the decisions, that is fine. If a male decides to let his wife make the decisions, that should be fine too. Neither a healthy relationship with God, nor a healthy relationship amongst a family is dependent upon a male being "in charge."