Separation of Church and State

[Edith Puthie]

In my College writing class we are doing our next essay on a problem. We have to identify the problem, and come up with ways of Fixing it. My group chose to do Separation of Church and state, and I wanted to see what you guys have to say about this.

Wikipedia

Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other.

I've been looking up articles on this all day right now. (Which is only... 22 Minutes of looking.) Anyways, I have found some rather interesting stuff. A lot of people think children shouldn't be allowed to pray in school. For the time being (I think) children are allowed to pray in school.

What are you opinions though? How far should we put the boundries between the church and the state? When does it take away our right to freedom of speech, and our freedom of religion?  

[Romjacks]

I don't see why kids shouldn't be allowed to pray in school, I do it all the time. I don't get why kids shouldn't be allowed to express their religious beliefs. Heck, I talk to my Atheist friend about Christianity all the time in our school library; I even had a debate on the subject in my Mi'kmaq Studies class. I guess my school being located in Canada has something to do with it.

Honestly, I think American children, teenagers and other students deserve to have their own freedom of religion, and should be allowed to express their beliefs in school just like I have the freedom to do.  

[zz1000zz]

There has never been an issue with students praying in school. The people who have said there is either are misinformed, or are simply making things up.

The problem was with teacher (or administration) led prayer. A student, or even a teacher, is free to pray in school. A teacher simply is not allowed to lead students in a prayer at school.  

[Matt Pniewski]

The problem isn't Children Praying in school. They don't want teachers or faculty to make Children pray in school. That's the real problem.

The reason Children SHOULDN'T prayer in school is, well, it's class time. That's all there is to it. If you can find time to pray when the teacher is not busy, then by all means. But don't put your pen and paper down to do so, please.


I don't understand the Separation of Church and State argument simply because I always thought it was clear cut. No Government instituted religion, no government sponsored religious holidays, Governments will always all religions to be practiced unless their is a contradiction with other civil liberties. I thought this was all very clear cut but both sides seem to think it goes to the favor of the other. The religious ones make wild accusations of their faith being under attack (because it sometimes is thanks to extremists) while the non religious claim the same thing (again, extremists).

Meanwhile, it is in the majority balanced within the center, where it is so easy to look past and right at the other side.


Really, it never was an issue until people started claiming that it was.  

[zz1000zz]

There has never been an issue with students praying in school. The people who have said there is either are misinformed, or are simply making things up.

The problem was with teacher (or administration) led prayer. A student, or even a teacher, is free to pray in school. A teacher simply is not allowed to lead students in a prayer at school.  

[zz1000zz]

There has never been an issue with students praying in school. The people who have said there is either are misinformed, or are simply making things up.

The problem was with teacher (or administration) led prayer. A student, or even a teacher, is free to pray in school. A teacher simply is not allowed to lead students in a prayer at school.  

[Matt Pniewski]

zz1000zz

There has never been an issue with students praying in school. The people who have said there is either are misinformed, or are simply making things up.

The problem was with teacher (or administration) led prayer. A student, or even a teacher, is free to pray in school. A teacher simply is not allowed to lead students in a prayer at school.

Of course, we do have the occasional "Religious Group Gets Kicked off Campus" thing that gets blown out of proportion and is seen as a national attack on religion and not just one stupid thing happening.....  

[zz1000zz]

I have no idea how that got posted three times. I am confused.  

[Priestley]

I don't see seperation of church and state as a problem.

Jesus said, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's".

This was said with reference to taxes. However, by setting it within the framework of Jesus' comments about the current system of things and its passing away, one adds a spiritual dimension to a wise but seemingly flat statement.

What do you mean "identify the problem"? Are you needing to find examples where church infringes upon state and vice versa?  

[Edith Puthie]

Priestley

I don't see seperation of church and state as a problem.

Jesus said, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's".

This was said with reference to taxes. However, by setting it within the framework of Jesus' comments about the current system of things and its passing away, one adds a spiritual dimension to a wise but seemingly flat statement.

What do you mean "identify the problem"? Are you needing to find examples where church infringes upon state and vice versa?

Well the problem is pretty much where did we get this idea (No ones said this, but the constitution does not mention this separation.), Where are the boundries? When does it become a problem? stuff like that.  

[Priestley]

Paranormal Zombiiie

Priestley

I don't see seperation of church and state as a problem.

Jesus said, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's".

This was said with reference to taxes. However, by setting it within the framework of Jesus' comments about the current system of things and its passing away, one adds a spiritual dimension to a wise but seemingly flat statement.

What do you mean "identify the problem"? Are you needing to find examples where church infringes upon state and vice versa?

Well the problem is pretty much where did we get this idea (No ones said this, but the constitution does not mention this separation.), Where are the boundries? When does it become a problem? stuff like that.

I'm no American but I believe the seperation is declared here:

First Amendment to the United States Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . .

It is based on two principles: secularity of government and exercising religious freedom. That is, government should not be influenced by any religion and government should not impose on a person's religious rights. The former could lead to the latter and vice versa. Ultimately the motive is stable governance.  

[Edith Puthie]

Priestley

Paranormal Zombiiie

Priestley

I don't see seperation of church and state as a problem.

Jesus said, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's".

This was said with reference to taxes. However, by setting it within the framework of Jesus' comments about the current system of things and its passing away, one adds a spiritual dimension to a wise but seemingly flat statement.

What do you mean "identify the problem"? Are you needing to find examples where church infringes upon state and vice versa?

Well the problem is pretty much where did we get this idea (No ones said this, but the constitution does not mention this separation.), Where are the boundries? When does it become a problem? stuff like that.

I'm no American but I believe the seperation is declared here:

First Amendment to the United States Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . .

It is based on two principles: secularity of government and exercising religious freedom. That is, government should not be influenced by any religion and government should not impose on a person's religious rights. The former could lead to the latter and vice versa. Ultimately the motive is stable governance.

Thats not the seperation of church and state, just the establishment of a state religion.

What we are tlaking about is, teachers are not allowed to show favor to one religion. The 10 commandments where forced to be taken out of a courthouse. Things like that.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

The Establishment Clause is the separation of church and state.  

[Romjacks]

Fushigi na Butterfly

The Establishment Clause is the separation of church and state.

I almost said that there wasn't a legal document regarding the separation of church and state until I found out about the Establishment Clause as I was checking some stuff out.  

[Edith Puthie]

Fushigi na Butterfly

The Establishment Clause is the separation of church and state.

My bad, lol. smile

But when did they decide that meant things like schools.
I mean the government has been around for 200+ years, only in the last 50 really have people made a whole deal out of this.