What are miracles?

[Priestley]

Many people say that this or that thing is a miracle when a fortunate occurance happens beyond their expectations, but what exactly is a miracle?

The definition tends to range from small acts like feeding someone who is hungry or clothing someone who is naked (which people are able to do with ease) or slightly greater acts of medicine and surgery, design and construction of large buildings, manipulation of energy and matter (which requires much education and training), to even the phenomenal events where Jesus and the apostles returned sight to the blind, healed the sick, cast out demons, fed multiples of people with small amounts of food, and so on.

What should be called a miracle and what shouldn't? Does it depend on one's level of understanding, in that being able to explain how something happens or being able to reproduce it makes it less of a wonder and less of a miracle? Does it depend on how much appreciation one has for what has happened? Let us know your thoughts! 3nodding  

[Lisa Faye]

Something happened to Cecil and me this past October. To us, it was nothing short of a miracle.
Cecil lost his job in June. And we got a notice from the water authority that we had a water leak on our property.
In talking with several people, we came to the understanding fixing this problem would literally cost several thousand dollars. Money we really didn't have when we could barely pay the mortgage.
I talked to someone at church during Judgement House. She gave me the number of someone at church who was a contractor. He cut us a huge deal. In the fact that he only charged minimal labor. The cost, shockingly, was only $150.
The water problem was fixed. And we haven't had a problem since.
I view that as a miracle. Because there was no other way it could have been anything less. smile  

[Priestley]

To further discussion, could it be simply that you received preferential treatment due to being a fellow Christian that you would otherwise not have received at the same rate, i.e. a form of favouritism?  

[Lisa Faye]

Matthew 5:45
He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

I think that sums it up right there.
I wouldn't really say we receive any form of favoritism. But God knows our needs. And has three answers to our prayers. Yes, no, or not now.
It was actually during this particular time that I was struggling quite a bit with my faith. Even still, God knew our needs. He knew we did not have the means to provide the money, so He opened the door to grant us the ability to be able to have the problem solved at very minimal cost.
However, if we continually rely on ourselves, and don't ask God for help when we need it, well, then we are only denying ourselves the blessings we could receive if we only would ask. wink  

[Priestley]

That doesn't really answer my question. Putting God to one side for a moment, I'll describe what happened in the situation you mentioned.

You needed a job done that would have cost a lot of money. A person at church put you in touch with another person at church who could do the job. This person charged you less because you were part of the church. This is favouritism.

What I want to know is, would this person have charged the same rate to someone who wasn't part of the church? Extending that, is the act an actual miracle (compared to making more food from a small amount of food, like Jesus) or simply an act of a kind businessman?  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Well, the dictionary defines a miracle as an act of God in the absence of any other explanation. I think a miracle is that, but even in spite of other explanations, like the plagues of Egypt being easily explained by science. The fact that they happened in just that way is a miracle. The fact that life exists as it does is a miracle. The fact that people find strength in impossible times and impossible places is a miracle.

I also think a miracle could be as simple as an answer to prayer. When God feels it okay to intervene on our behalf, how is that not a miracle?  

[saki_hanajima7]

I have a story....
Now you must understand I am very skeptical about the mass faith healings and such. But anyway....
There was this girl who was in my youth group who had some sort of disorder where a nerve in her foot/leg was being pinched or something like that and she was in constant pain. The doctors had tried everything but she was still and pain and couldn't walk without crutches. This had been going on for probably more than a year. The doctors had suggested trying to put weight on her foot whenever she stood up...just to sort of get used to it i guess.
Anyway, one day out of desperation she prayed for healing. She got up, tried putting weight on her foot like usual, and there was no pain. The doctors couldn't explain it. That, in my opinion, is a miracle.  

[Ixor Firebadger]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Well, the dictionary defines a miracle as an act of God in the absence of any other explanation. I think a miracle is that, but even in spite of other explanations, like the plagues of Egypt being easily explained by science. The fact that they happened in just that way is a miracle. The fact that life exists as it does is a miracle. The fact that people find strength in impossible times and impossible places is a miracle.

I also think a miracle could be as simple as an answer to prayer. When God feels it okay to intervene on our behalf, how is that not a miracle?

My initial reaction was that everything good, from flowers to a cancer that just disappears, can be considered a miracle. I really couldn't say, though. Well, Fushigi has the why xd

Because all good things, even the seemingly insignificant, come from God.  

[Lisa Faye]

Fushigi na Butterfly

I also think a miracle could be as simple as an answer to prayer. When God feels it okay to intervene on our behalf, how is that not a miracle?

Quoted for truth.
God knew what we needed. I didn't know what to do to get there. I was praying about it ever since we knew about it.
The one who did the job for us was made aware of our situation. We really didn't tell him that part. The lady who I spoke with initially shared that with him.

Quote:

What I want to know is, would this person have charged the same rate to someone who wasn't part of the church?

In this contractor, no. He let us know later he does these things for others who are really unable to pay big fees. Like we were at that moment.
He also said if we wanted to pay more than what he charged, to send any additional payments to the church. Which we will do over the course of a few months.
He did us a favor, true. But it's people such as these who do these kind things that help us realize there are kind people out there who are not just out to make a fast buck and take advantage of others. smile  

[Priestley]

Lisa Faye

Fushigi na Butterfly

I also think a miracle could be as simple as an answer to prayer. When God feels it okay to intervene on our behalf, how is that not a miracle?

Quoted for truth.
God knew what we needed. I didn't know what to do to get there. I was praying about it ever since we knew about it.
The one who did the job for us was made aware of our situation. We really didn't tell him that part. The lady who I spoke with initially shared that with him.

You told a lady at church about your need. They knew a man who could fill that need. She told him what you needed done. The situation/need was known to all three parties. It is unlikely that your prayer did anything. It is much more likely that, through the social network of the church (which is no different than any other social network) you found someone who could do the job for you.

Lisa Faye

Priestley

What I want to know is, would this person have charged the same rate to someone who wasn't part of the church?

In this contractor, no. He let us know later he does these things for others who are really unable to pay big fees. Like we were at that moment.
He also said if we wanted to pay more than what he charged, to send any additional payments to the church. Which we will do over the course of a few months.
He did us a favor, true. But it's people such as these who do these kind things that help us realize there are kind people out there who are not just out to make a fast buck and take advantage of others. smile

Well, it's rather unfair that Christians should get preferential treatment. It also creates the illusion that the church is more blessed than the people surrounding it.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Woah, when did Lethkhar come back into the guild?? eek

Anyway, this is why I also feel that miracles are those things that happen even in spite of other explanations. Sure, networking could have helped her out, but without God, where would the love have been that allowed such thing to occur? Sure, other people might just say they got lucky, but luck has nothing to do with it. As a Christian, there is no such thing as luck. There are blessings, which God bestows upon us when we follow His commands, and even to convince us of His existence, and there are curses and consequences, which we often bring upon ourselves, when we pull away from God and separate ourselves from His love (and apart from God, no good thing can happen).  

[Priestley]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Woah, when did Lethkhar come back into the guild?? eek

Anyway, this is why I also feel that miracles are those things that happen even in spite of other explanations. Sure, networking could have helped her out, but without God, where would the love have been that allowed such thing to occur? Sure, other people might just say they got lucky, but luck has nothing to do with it. As a Christian, there is no such thing as luck. There are blessings, which God bestows upon us when we follow His commands, and even to convince us of His existence, and there are curses and consequences, which we often bring upon ourselves, when we pull away from God and separate ourselves from His love (and apart from God, no good thing can happen).

Haha, yeah, I do sound a bit like him, but he'd probably be offended by the comparison lol. sweatdrop

The majority of people know how to love and have the capacity to love, even if they don't know God, don't pay attention to Him or live as though He never existed. What I am saying is that, if God never existed, human beings would still love.

I don't believe in luck -- especially not in this case -- because social networks bring a wide variety of skills to the group and it increases the chance that someone will be able to help with something. It's like the Birthday Problem, that states that the probability of finding someone with the same birthday as you in a group of 23 people is 50.7%. When the group gets to 57 people in size , it's 99% likely that someone will have the same birthday. Beyond 100 in a group, chances are almost certain (99.99997%). This can be transferred to a group of churchgoers. It is very likely that skills-to-needs will be matched in a congregation. This happens every day in the services industry with greed as the primary motivator. Whether it is through greed or love, needs are met in life. Surely this is the most important thing. Doing it to build treasures in heaven is still kinda greedy.

Apart from God, no good thing can happen? Isn't that like slapping a sticker on all good things done to people attributing it to God without thinking "hang on, didn't I do this?"?  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

I disagree. Without God, people wouldn't love. People wouldn't exist. If God is love, then, where there is no God, there is no love, unless we are to assume that something else is love as well? But the Bible never says anything about it. So ....  

[Priestley]

Fushigi na Butterfly

I disagree. Without God, people wouldn't love. People wouldn't exist. If God is love, then, where there is no God, there is no love, unless we are to assume that something else is love as well? But the Bible never says anything about it. So ....

The Bible says nothing about dinosaurs either. That's probably because the Bible isn't a biology or natural history textbook.

Sticking go-faster stripes on a golf cart doesn't make it a sports car. Whatever love is described as, be it a bunch of hormones flooding and neurons firing, or an emotion and an action, it is still what it is and does what it does. It doesn't change according to its description.

What is interesting, however, is that the same reasoning suggests that God must be inside and around lots of atheists and people of different faiths more than they are in some Christians if the atheists and people of other faith have the capacity to love their brothers better than Christians.