Sins of the Father

[Galad Aglaron]

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

Does this mean that people are punished for the sins of the great-grandfathers and things? O_O'  

[Priestley]

I'm unsure how direct such punishments are but I know that the repercussions of one's decisions and actions can affect the generations to come. Success or failure in one generation can change the circumstances of the next, for example.

I brought up this subject in another post, asking whether God can influence the genes in a sperm/egg to make the offspring more susceptable to addictive behaviours or other psychological conditions, as though cursing.  

[NamelessShadowElf]

I doubt it is so much direct influence, I don't believe he would do that, as much as the material and spiritual repercussions of that sinful person raising as child and that child raising theirs.

My father was raised by an alchololic, even though his path lead him into ministry he wasn't able to form that lasting relationship with god. about 4 years ago is all went south. A few months before the fragile relationship between him and my mother broke, and they got a divorce. (Just to put it here, this did not effect me don't respond to it) He struggled for another 2 years till, several states away. he was able to reconnect and allow god to pull him up. He is doing very well now going to various classes at two churches, as well as AA even though he was a minimal drinker, and has recently found himself teaching a new member class at one of those churches.

it may have been his father's sins, and him witnessing those sins, that made it harder to work in his own life. Or, yes it could have been punishment for his father, but if that were true I'd be having such a harder time connecting myself.  

[Edith Puthie]

Galad Damodred

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

Does this mean that people are punished for the sins of the great-grandfathers and things? O_O'

That may have been what was happening. But since Jesus died on the cross, he paid for all the sins. D: Thats how I see it.  

[Galad Aglaron]

Paranormal Zombiiie

Galad Damodred

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

Does this mean that people are punished for the sins of the great-grandfathers and things? O_O'

That may have been what was happening. But since Jesus died on the cross, he paid for all the sins. D: Thats how I see it.

See Luke 16:17 plz. sweatdrop  

[Priestley]

Galad Damodred

Paranormal Zombiiie

Galad Damodred

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

Does this mean that people are punished for the sins of the great-grandfathers and things? O_O'

That may have been what was happening. But since Jesus died on the cross, he paid for all the sins. D: Thats how I see it.

See Luke 16:17 plz. sweatdrop

What's your point?  

[Edith Puthie]

Galad Damodred

Paranormal Zombiiie

Galad Damodred

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

Does this mean that people are punished for the sins of the great-grandfathers and things? O_O'

That may have been what was happening. But since Jesus died on the cross, he paid for all the sins. D: Thats how I see it.

See Luke 16:17 plz. sweatdrop

Jesus came and free'd us from the sins that bind us down, why would he free us from all sins except the sins of our fathers?  

[Galad Aglaron]

Priestley

Galad Damodred

Paranormal Zombiiie

Galad Damodred

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

Does this mean that people are punished for the sins of the great-grandfathers and things? O_O'

That may have been what was happening. But since Jesus died on the cross, he paid for all the sins. D: Thats how I see it.

See Luke 16:17 plz. sweatdrop

What's your point?

Well, doesn't it mean that all those horrid laws still apply? Grace or not, the laws of the Old Testament must still be followed.  

[Priestley]

Galad Damodred

Priestley

Galad Damodred

Paranormal Zombiiie

Galad Damodred

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

Does this mean that people are punished for the sins of the great-grandfathers and things? O_O'

That may have been what was happening. But since Jesus died on the cross, he paid for all the sins. D: Thats how I see it.

See Luke 16:17 plz. sweatdrop

What's your point?

Well, doesn't it mean that all those horrid laws still apply? Grace or not, the laws of the Old Testament must still be followed.

The context in which Jesus is speaking is a condemnation of the Pharisees and those who justify themselves in the eyes of men by the Law (Luke 16:14-15). There is a change in what is being preached (Luke 16:16) and it has resulted in those who were burdened with the Law flocking to receive it. Luke 16:17 is both a scathing judgement of those who misuse the Law to burden the people and a testament to its endurance.  

[Galad Aglaron]

Priestley

Galad Damodred

Priestley

Galad Damodred

Paranormal Zombiiie

Galad Damodred

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

Does this mean that people are punished for the sins of the great-grandfathers and things? O_O'

That may have been what was happening. But since Jesus died on the cross, he paid for all the sins. D: Thats how I see it.

See Luke 16:17 plz. sweatdrop

What's your point?

Well, doesn't it mean that all those horrid laws still apply? Grace or not, the laws of the Old Testament must still be followed.

The context in which Jesus is speaking is a condemnation of the Pharisees and those who justify themselves in the eyes of men by the Law (Luke 16:14-15). There is a change in what is being preached (Luke 16:16) and it has resulted in those who were burdened with the Law flocking to receive it. Luke 16:17 is both a scathing judgement of those who misuse the Law to burden the people and a testament to its endurance.

But it endures and that is the point.  

[Samsoonie]

Galad Damodred

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

Does this mean that people are punished for the sins of the great-grandfathers and things? O_O'

Well I mean to some degree I believe it's true that our current sins can have an affect on our children and our children's children.
fooor example! :3

Sarah from Genesis 16 Didn't listen to God and took matters into her own hands. So she had her maidservant Hagar sleep with Abraham and Ishmael was born. Long story short Ishmael also was the father of many because he was Abraham's son just like Isaac. Eventually Ishmael becomes the father of Islam and Isaac is the father of the Israelites.

So yes I do believe our sin's can effect the future of our children, our grand children, and our great grand children,
It probably seems unfair but I know that God is a just God and I trust him to know and do what is right.  

[Galad Aglaron]

Samsoonie

Galad Damodred

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

Does this mean that people are punished for the sins of the great-grandfathers and things? O_O'

Well I mean to some degree I believe it's true that our current sins can have an affect on our children and our children's children.
fooor example! :3

Sarah from Genesis 16 Didn't listen to God and took matters into her own hands. So she had her maidservant Hagar sleep with Abraham and Ishmael was born. Long story short Ishmael also was the father of many because he was Abraham's son just like Isaac. Eventually Ishmael becomes the father of Islam and Isaac is the father of the Israelites.

So yes I do believe our sin's can effect the future of our children, our grand children, and our great grand children,
It probably seems unfair but I know that God is a just God and I trust him to know and do what is right.

So if God does it, it must be right? stare  

[Samsoonie]

Galad Damodred

Samsoonie

Galad Damodred

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

Does this mean that people are punished for the sins of the great-grandfathers and things? O_O'

Well I mean to some degree I believe it's true that our current sins can have an affect on our children and our children's children.
fooor example! :3

Sarah from Genesis 16 Didn't listen to God and took matters into her own hands. So she had her maidservant Hagar sleep with Abraham and Ishmael was born. Long story short Ishmael also was the father of many because he was Abraham's son just like Isaac. Eventually Ishmael becomes the father of Islam and Isaac is the father of the Israelites.

So yes I do believe our sin's can effect the future of our children, our grand children, and our great grand children,
It probably seems unfair but I know that God is a just God and I trust him to know and do what is right.

So if God does it, it must be right? stare

Well I trust that God who is all powerful and who knows all things knows what's best for his own creations
am I wrong?  

[Yamichika]

Galad Damodred

(Exodus 20:5) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

(Exodus 34:6-7) - "Then the Lord passed by in front of him and proclaimed, "The Lord, the Lord God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; 7who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations."

(Deuteronomy 5:9) - "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, and on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,"

Does this mean that people are punished for the sins of the great-grandfathers and things? O_O'

It certainly does. It's called a generational curse and can come in the form of many things including diseases, ailments, and particular negative circumstances. It takes prayer and active effort to break a GC.  

[Priestley]

Galad Damodred

Priestley

Galad Damodred

Priestley

Galad Damodred

See Luke 16:17 plz. sweatdrop

What's your point?

Well, doesn't it mean that all those horrid laws still apply? Grace or not, the laws of the Old Testament must still be followed.

The context in which Jesus is speaking is a condemnation of the Pharisees and those who justify themselves in the eyes of men by the Law (Luke 16:14-15). There is a change in what is being preached (Luke 16:16) and it has resulted in those who were burdened with the Law flocking to receive it. Luke 16:17 is both a scathing judgement of those who misuse the Law to burden the people and a testament to its endurance.

But it endures and that is the point.

No, your point is that the Old Testament must be followed, grace or not.

The Law exists despite there being nothing and no one else, such is its endurance and permanence. Not practicing the Law does not take away from the Law.