Quantum Physics and Magic

[MaddLlama]

This is a concept that's apparently been around for a while, but I hadn't heard about it until recently. Does anyone have any experience with this?

I notice that $WR wrote a book on the subject. I'd be willing to bet she doesn't know the first thing about quantum mechanics, and I feel for anybody trying to learn about it from that book...  

[CuAnnan]

MaddLlama

This is a concept that's apparently been around for a while, but I hadn't heard about it until recently. Does anyone have any experience with this?

I notice that $WR wrote a book on the subject. I'd be willing to bet she doesn't know the first thing about quantum mechanics, and I feel for anybody trying to learn about it from that book...

QM is generally used by people who don't understand it in order to support their positions because of the need for validation and done out of extreme ignorance of QM.
QM has no place in most magic systems (just for you Paradigm Pirate) nor does it, in any way shape or form, scientifically support the idea.  

[MaddLlama]

That was the initial impression I had of it, but seeing as my dumb a** failed physics....

I don't get the need for validation. Are people afraid that atheists will come after Pagans next unless they have something "sciency" to say?  

[CuAnnan]

MaddLlama

That was the initial impression I had of it, but seeing as my dumb a** failed physics....

I don't get the need for validation. Are people afraid that atheists will come after Pagans next unless they have something "sciency" to say?

Not at all. I discuss science all the time.
I just don't like the idea of trying to blend the two.  

[Ashley the Bee]

CuAnnan

MaddLlama

That was the initial impression I had of it, but seeing as my dumb a** failed physics....

I don't get the need for validation. Are people afraid that atheists will come after Pagans next unless they have something "sciency" to say?

Not at all. I discuss science all the time.
I just don't like the idea of trying to blend the two.

I suppose I want to ask the "what if" question now.

What if magic wasn't supernatural, but natural, somehow?

I know the question from this is, "What type of magic?" etc... Any type ninja  

[Deoridhe]

Ur....

I already think magic is natural.  

[Ashley the Bee]

Deoridhe

Ur....

I already think magic is natural.

I should be more specific as well. Natural meaning that it behaves within the bounds of ... trying to be general as well... physics, both what we know now and what can be discovered.

I'm not sure if I mean falsifiable or not though. confused  

[Deoridhe]

Ashley the Bee

Deoridhe

Ur....

I already think magic is natural.

I should be more specific as well. Natural meaning that it behaves within the bounds of ... trying to be general as well... physics, both what we know now and what can be discovered.

I'm not sure if I mean falsifiable or not though. confused

Are you setting up the scientific method as a determiner of reality?  

[Ashley the Bee]

Deoridhe

Ashley the Bee

Deoridhe

Ur....

I already think magic is natural.

I should be more specific as well. Natural meaning that it behaves within the bounds of ... trying to be general as well... physics, both what we know now and what can be discovered.

I'm not sure if I mean falsifiable or not though. confused

Are you setting up the scientific method as a determiner of reality?

I want to say no? I don't want to be so restrictive as requiring consistent, repeatable results from it?

But perhaps I'm missing something else too. (Or, perhaps it just is something else)  

[Deoridhe]

Ashley the Bee

Deoridhe

Ashley the Bee

Deoridhe

Ur....

I already think magic is natural.

I should be more specific as well. Natural meaning that it behaves within the bounds of ... trying to be general as well... physics, both what we know now and what can be discovered.

I'm not sure if I mean falsifiable or not though. confused

Are you setting up the scientific method as a determiner of reality?

I want to say no? I don't want to be so restrictive as requiring consistent, repeatable results from it?

But perhaps I'm missing something else too. (Or, perhaps it just is something else)

Well... the scientific method isn't about consistent, repeatable results necessarily. I mean, take what we know of carbon - it spikes at certain configurations of molecules, but it's a distribution pattern, not an all or nothing sort of thing, and the rates aren't always the same.  

[Ashley the Bee]

Deoridhe

Well... the scientific method isn't about consistent, repeatable results necessarily. I mean, take what we know of carbon - it spikes at certain configurations of molecules, but it's a distribution pattern, not an all or nothing sort of thing, and the rates aren't always the same.

I'm not really aware of what you mean ^^;

But it's a side issue anyway. If magic is natural, then it should be able to be explained, wouldn't it? That is, "This spell works because __."

Do you think that's the case? If not, can you explain what you mean?  

[Fiddlers Green]

All of my "magics" are just applied physics.
If you want to change the world, find the rules the world works by, and see exactly where in that equation you want to substitute a variable to get the end result. It's just that simple.
One thing we encounter that is problematic, is the habit of certain portions of the scientific community to accept half truths, and then run with them, building their entire existence dynamics off assumption, while damning those that explore other options. When Science birthed a "community" it became just as objective as religion.
I haven't made much of a study of the magics of others, and what research I have done is oathbound.  

[TatteredAngel]

I find quantum physics pretty damn magical all on its own. I like to keep my definition of magic loose. Science can be magical. That said, it sets my teeth on edge when people try to pretend that there's some cute ready-blend of quantum and magical. I am not a physicist, I don't even pretend to understand half of it. I'm just a bit of a quantum physics fangirl, and I pick up what I can with a largely arts-oriented background.

And even so, I wouldn't be caught dead making the claims that most of the "magic and quantum physics" crowd make.

Tangentially, though, I think that it's a modern and secular way for a lot of people to have what is in essence folk magic, but since "magic" has so many connotations, "science" provides a nice comforting label for people who don't like magic.

The water they started selling at my local grocery, for example. Aquamantra, I think? Has positive messages on the bottles, like "I am loved," and encourages people to think and feel that as they drink, thereby imbuing the water with that quality. It claims that this works because of quantum physics. Sounds a lot like magic to me.  

[Ashley the Bee]

TatteredAngel

The water they started selling at my local grocery, for example. Aquamantra, I think? Has positive messages on the bottles, like "I am loved," and encourages people to think and feel that as they drink, thereby imbuing the water with that quality. It claims that this works because of quantum physics. Sounds a lot like magic to me.

Makes me think of What the Bleep Do We Know, and specifically EMOTO Masaru ^_^  

[TatteredAngel]

Ashley the Bee

TatteredAngel

The water they started selling at my local grocery, for example. Aquamantra, I think? Has positive messages on the bottles, like "I am loved," and encourages people to think and feel that as they drink, thereby imbuing the water with that quality. It claims that this works because of quantum physics. Sounds a lot like magic to me.

Makes me think of What the Bleep Do We Know, and specifically EMOTO Masaru ^_^

Oh, yup. It doesn't say it on their bottles, but now that I'm looking at their website, the water was inspired by the film and Emoto's work. Huh.