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 Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:23 pm
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I would like to say that i have noticed a problem with Christians today: We have been accepting too much of what secular society is teaching.
The most important thing is how Christians are letting their opinions replace what the Lord has taught us in his word. Because of the sheer volume of topics that are constantly talked about, and because of flawed logic, many Christians have begun to replace guidelines for living with justifications for sin.
The Bible is the Truth.
There is no more or less. No maybes or ifs. No opinions.
The Bible was written with the ability to adapt to a person's problems, to show new light in a dark situation, however, the Bible was not written so that we could justify our sin.
Legalism is just as bad as justification. Those who take every passage literally are no less guilty than those who twist the Bible's guidelines to suit their own preferences.
As an example, homosexuality is a black and white matter; It is a sin, God condemns all homosexual acts, and in fact Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of it. To say anything else on the matter is to claim that God's word is wrong. There is no debate, no opinion, that supercedes the Bible.
This will hurt many peoples feelings, but hurt feelings are better than sin-wrought thoughts.
Crucify yourself. Crucify your thoughts. Crucify your beliefs and opinions.
And read God's Word. All the answers are there.
Follow Christ. He did not discriminate, he did not refute his Father's word.
So many Christians today have joined in the world's beliefs, and have left behind what the Bible says. We are supposed to be separate from the world, to stand apart from everyone else's opinions.
Please everyone, remember that His word is absolute.
We are Disciples, not his partners. He determines right and wrong, he determines what sin is or is not. and he laid it all out in his word.
I am sorry to sound so harsh. Prophetic message has always cut to the bone. The words are sharp, but they will mend your heart, should you head them.
==============================================
God bid me to write everything above. HE wants people to hear Him, to read His word, and to know what he commands.
Thank you all for listening, God bless each of you.
(For all those wondering, I recommend "The Message" version of the Bible, it is wonderfully written/translated and is probably the most accurate in terms of meaning.)
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:17 pm
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=/ To say that one thing is WRONG and there can be no debate or opinion on it is hypocrisy; you are using your own interpretation of the texts and that counts as opinion. The only way we can achieve a better understanding of the Bible is by hashing it out again and again until everyone gets the concepts involved.
Further, by choosing homosexuality as your example, you too are being led by secular society. Though society would make you think homosexuality is a HUGE deal in Christianity (and even Christians often believe this), it's mentioned only a few times in the Bible. You'd be more justified in picking something like divorce or capitalism.
I personally have looked at all the texts relating to homosexuality, read through various interpretations, learned the language used in the texts, studied the history of the Bible, and I've come to the conclusion that homosexuality is perfectly acceptable. I've asked God about it, and it was the same thing. God made me the way I am, and I'm proud of it.
The Message is a kid's version of the Bible; it incorporates opinions and beliefs of the men who translated it, rather than giving the words of the men who wrote it. If you want a GOOD Bible, try the NIV or (GASP) the original!
Finally, to say that God "bid" you to write this is supremely arrogant and bordering on schizophrenic. =/
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:05 pm
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:35 pm
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Mein Kulturkampf =/ To say that one thing is WRONG and there can be no debate or opinion on it is hypocrisy; you are using your own interpretation of the texts and that counts as opinion. The only way we can achieve a better understanding of the Bible is by hashing it out again and again until everyone gets the concepts involved.
Well, if we all had copies of the original scriptures and the capacity to understand the language in which they were written, we would all be able to decide for ourselves what to do and what not to do. Unfortunately, this isn't the case, so we will have to work towards understanding and accept the help of the Spirit with patience and endurance.
Mein Kulturkampf Further, by choosing homosexuality as your example, you too are being led by secular society. Though society would make you think homosexuality is a HUGE deal in Christianity (and even Christians often believe this), it's mentioned only a few times in the Bible. You'd be more justified in picking something like divorce or capitalism.
Wait a minute, are you saying there's more justification in doing and teaching against one thing than another? This would suggest that the commandments have different weights. Newsflash: lying is just as bad as murdering is just as bad as stealing is just as bad as coveting is just as bad as worshipping other things. Yes, there is a lot of injustice in the world, but the health of the church is still important.
Mein Kulturkampf I personally have looked at all the texts relating to homosexuality, read through various interpretations, learned the language used in the texts, studied the history of the Bible, and I've come to the conclusion that homosexuality is perfectly acceptable. I've asked God about it, and it was the same thing. God made me the way I am, and I'm proud of it.
Considering homosexuality has been shown to be somewhat linked to genetics and development in the womb, why wouldn't homosexuals be beyond salvation? If I had an incurable genetic condition, I would want salvation, too.
Mein Kulturkampf The Message is a kid's version of the Bible; it incorporates opinions and beliefs of the men who translated it, rather than giving the words of the men who wrote it. If you want a GOOD Bible, try the NIV or (GASP) the original! Finally, to say that God "bid" you to write this is supremely arrogant and bordering on schizophrenic. =/
Oh, come now, Dr. Kulturkampf! There's no need to make such a hasty diagnosis. Neither is there a need to throw insults around. Stop it. Even this is argument ad hominem (yes, I can point out logical fallacies too)! |
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:48 pm
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I understand that what i say will make people upset, and im really sorry about that.
Please don't view what i said as an attack, I'm trying to help people walk the Christian path.
Things are so much more pleasant without debate. To accept the Bible, and not bicker about who is right or wrong will help us Christians become united. The arguing is what divides us. That is why God wants it known that His Word is absolute.
I like the message because it feels the most authentic. I have prayed fervently about how the message is written and God always says to me that it is a great tool for both new Christians, and Veteran Christians. (I carry the message version of the NT with me wherever i go, pocket size ftw!)
Its not perfect, no, but it is very very good, and is indeed helpful for those who aren't good with the "thee and thous" ^^;;
I am very sorry if i sounded arrogant.
I will say that i was calm and listening to the Holy Spirit while writing.
As to me saying "God bid me write it", maybe it would be better written as "The Holy Spirit inspired me to write this" (my style of writing is weird, i know ._.;;; )
Thank you for your thoughts,
I need to remember that my Prophet-motivated nature can sound incredibly harsh ._.
God bless you all, and I pray for your peace of mind!
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:11 pm
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Edge of Ether Things are so much more pleasant without debate. To accept the Bible, and not bicker about who is right or wrong will help us Christians become united. The arguing is what divides us. That is why God wants it known that His Word is absolute.
Things are more pleasant without debate, but how else are we supposed to learn discernment? Doesn't the Bible suggest we examine and test our ways (Lamentations 3:40)? Galatians also tells us that "Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else." If God feels that what a person is doing is wrong, and if that person has the Spirit in them, He'll convict them of what they're doing. There are so many things from both the Old and New Testaments that were commanded because of the culture, and because God wanted to separate His people from the surrounding nations. Circumcision, taboos against certain foods and menstruating women, rules about sacrifices- these were all things that would separate Israel from other peoples, and that would also keep them safe. Sanitation was not what it is today. People could have been killed from all sorts of diseases that are easily cured or treated today, mostly diseases that are transmitted through blood (hence all the sacrifice taboos and menstrual taboos). Also, anything that can be transmitted through blood can be transmitted through sex. Hence why homosexual sex is forbidden. They did not have condoms 2000 years and more ago. They did not have antibiotics, they did not have AZT.
However, laws about homosexuality is one of the few laws that carries over to the New Testament. Homosexuality is not a sin. The only thing the Bible says about homosexuality is that homosexual sex is sinful. Perhaps the fact that gay marriage is illegal is a way to help keep God's laws. Any kind of sex outside of marriage is unlawful in God's eyes (though forgivable). Christians in a romantic relationship should be striving to draw clear boundaries in order to keep their relationship pure. This goes for gays and straights.
But I do think that everyone should read the entire Bible themselves and ask for the Spirit's help in interpreting it. God's got different plans for everyone's life; because of this, I believe He offers different understandings of His Word. His Word never changes- only its application. |
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:16 pm
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I really appreciate your feedback. you are calm and composed and don't just jump on my back ^_^;;
(I have had many people jump on me about my message in the past...>_>)
Discernment is found through the Holy spirit and the help of fellow Christians, though, not through debate.... well maybe debate is the wrong word here... Argue, bicker, fight, quarrel, you get the idea razz
I mean how the Church is split into so many denominations...
The Church has a place for everyone, and we have let ourselves become divided by our opinions.
That is one of my major points: We need to get along with one another.
(the way to do that is to lay aside one's opinion and replace it with a God-given truth.)
(testing ones' own actions wouldnt be a debate... to test your actions is to compare with His Word and see how your actions fit in with his guidelines. After doing this you can take pride in yourself without comparing yourself to others.)
I agree with most of what you have said actually, many of the old testament rules were meant for the israelites. The OT is more for history and for validation of the NT. It does have several good guidelines, and isnt overwritten, but yes, things like eating pork were specific to the israelites.
As for your statements on homosexuality: It sounds like you have assumed that people can be born Gay. This is the world's view on it, a way to justify the way they have chosen to live. There are studies, yes, but they do not prove anything more than a slightly increased tendency. They do not predict who will be gay, because it relies solely on environment + upbringing.
Our society says that homosexuality is alright, and that anyone can be gay or bi, and many times peers will ask you to think about if you are gay or not. This is where thinking too much comes into play. Instead of dismissing the thoughts as should be done, people begin to think, and sometimes fear that they are gay....this leads to them eventually "coming out", which is approved by society. Society has made it a "Self-Fulfilling Prophecy". When those around you treat you as something, at some point you will accept what they treat you as, and become it.
(if everyone around a little boy tells him he will be a garbage man, at some point he will go get a job as one. [a poor, simple example, but close enough])
lol sorry that this is so long and thank you again for your input! ^_^
(btw, i dont mean to sound angry or mean, so imagine me just talking in a emotionless voice lol xD)
God bless you all! I continue to pray for everyone i have met here.. ^_^
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Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:03 pm
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The Bible and most things written in it are actually no where near black and white, as few things in life are. The Bible is an immensly old book that was written in a completely different world than the one we live in today and has been translated and mistranslated over and over again. You have to take this all into account when reading the Bible. If you take everything at face value, you may not be taking into consideration many of the cicumstances it was written under.
I agree, that as Christians we are called to live a life apart, but we also do have to live in this world. And that means accepting and loving others, and showing them God's love.
That also being said, I believe people need to find their own path to God. We all have our little ideosyncricies (sp?) and we hear and feel God in different ways. We recieve his message in different ways. I personally actually grow the most in my faith by debate and discussion. So what of that? The thing is- as long as our hearts are set on God and we're doing his will and following him where he calls us, how can we go wrong? Do everything for the glory of our Lord, and you're walking with him.
Yes, I am a liberal. But then again, so was Jesus. I know I don't always conform to traditional Christian teachings, but then again most of those teachings developed in the Middle Ages by a corrupt church, not from Jesus' life time.
I'm digressing quickly, so I'm gonna cut this off soon- blame it on final exams! I guess the point I'm trying to make is don't assume your interpretation is the only one. The fact is, there are many and to assume one is ultimate is kind of silly to me. It's like putting God in a box, which is even sillier.
And random: I would actually warn people against using the Message Bible. It's a pretty inaccurate translation that has a tendancy to twist scripture. It was actually one of the translations we were urged to stay away from in my Biblical Literature class. While there isn't any perfect translation, scholars tend to agree on NRSV or NIV. No matter what translation you prefer, it's always good to cross reference with other translations though.
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 1:57 pm
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A New Creature
But I do think that everyone should read the entire Bible themselves and ask for the Spirit's help in interpreting it. God's got different plans for everyone's life; because of this, I believe He offers different understandings of His Word. His Word never changes- only its application.
freelance lover I guess the point I'm trying to make is don't assume your interpretation is the only one. The fact is, there are many and to assume one is ultimate is kind of silly to me. It's like putting God in a box, which is even sillier.
I really can't sum up my feelings on the matter any more succintly. God's truth is meant to apply to each of us individually. Your truth is not my truth, which is obvious from the example you gave about homosexuality. I don't believe that God would create beings that were so capable of love and affection and then deny it, saying all the while that love comes from himself. Whether being gay is a choice or not (you think one way, and I think the other), your black and white is completely opposite from mine. Christians will choose Democrat or Republican and wonder how other Christians can, based on the Bible, choose the other. I'll warn you now, it is INCREDIBLY difficult to make someone switch their point of view, especially when they are using the same book as their evidence. You may debate, you can even try to win us over to your viewpoint. Just make sure that you're doing it in a manner that doesn't seem like everyone else is wrong just because we look at things a little differently. |
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:06 pm
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ryuu_chan A New Creature
But I do think that everyone should read the entire Bible themselves and ask for the Spirit's help in interpreting it. God's got different plans for everyone's life; because of this, I believe He offers different understandings of His Word. His Word never changes- only its application.freelance lover I guess the point I'm trying to make is don't assume your interpretation is the only one. The fact is, there are many and to assume one is ultimate is kind of silly to me. It's like putting God in a box, which is even sillier.
I really can't sum up my feelings on the matter any more succintly. God's truth is meant to apply to each of us individually. Your truth is not my truth, which is obvious from the example you gave about homosexuality. I don't believe that God would create beings that were so capable of love and affection and then deny it, saying all the while that love comes from himself. Whether being gay is a choice or not (you think one way, and I think the other), your black and white is completely opposite from mine. Christians will choose Democrat or Republican and wonder how other Christians can, based on the Bible, choose the other. I'll warn you now, it is INCREDIBLY difficult to make someone switch their point of view, especially when they are using the same book as their evidence. You may debate, you can even try to win us over to your viewpoint. Just make sure that you're doing it in a manner that doesn't seem like everyone else is wrong just because we look at things a little differently.
Thinking of it from the opposite perspective, shouldn't the one Holy Spirit have a specific stance on all matters? How else do Christians expect to get along if all matters are subject to every individuals' opinion? |
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:06 pm
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Yeah, I'm gonna have to say I disagree just a little bit with ryuu_chan. Truth is truth is truth (the same as sin is sin is sin). It's not subjective. God is Truth, the Ultimate Truth, and His standards are the ones we should be living up to. Just because one person does not see the truth, or even agree with it, does not make it any less truthful. It just makes the person who doesn't see it or agree with it wrong.
At some point, Christians need to come together and decide yes, homosexual relationships are sinful or no, homosexual relationships are good in God's eyes. Only one answer is right. As Christians, we're all striving to understand God's Word, to understand His will and plan for our lives. It's really hard when we're trying to love and accept everyone, but still make sure that our sisters and brothers are living a life according to God's standards. This is why the first commandment that Jesus gave us in the New Testament is so important. Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind'" (Matthew 22:37). This doesn't just mean thinking, "Yeah, the God guy- He's pretty cool. I think I love Him." Loving God means obeying His commands (and here it gets a little cyclical and confusing, but that's okay, I'll try to break it down). This is love for God: to obey his commands (1 John 5:3a). What are His commands? Well, there are those ten He gave to Israel on Mt. Sinai- that's a good start. And then there are the two He gave us in the New Testament, when the guy asked Jesus which of the commandments was the greatest. Upon those two do the other eight rest, but they're all important.
I believe there is a difference between being ignorant of the Law (which does not make one exempt from it) and potentially disobeying God's Law because you thought you were doing something for Him. But we have Jesus on our side. Whether a person is living a homosexual lifestyle or not, if they are doing the best they can, they are still saved. Jesus' blood covers them just as thoroughly as it covers heterosexuals. The next verse I have is also very important to remember though:
So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31). If this is in your heart, and if you are allowing the Spirit to move you to follow the two greatest Commandments, how can anyone be condemned? If you truly feel that you can honor God much better in a homosexual relationship than single or in a heterosexual relationship, then I say there is no sin.
But this is just my interpretation. sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:31 pm
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freelance lover Yes, I am a liberal. But then again, so was Jesus.
Please explain what you mean by this.
freelance lover I know I don't always conform to traditional Christian teachings, but then again most of those teachings developed in the Middle Ages by a corrupt church, not from Jesus' life time.
Are you speaking about the Roman Catholic Church? |
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High-functioning Businesswoman
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:34 pm
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:47 pm
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Reply
