Questions on Recon Religions

[Autumnal Light]

Something I've been wondering about recently is the process of reconstructing old religions which have fallen out of common usage or even died out completely. The first thing that comes to mind when I read the term "reconstruction" is that the practitioners are trying to take what they know to practice the religion as close to it's original form as possible. Yet I've noticed that in Asatru, things like the Nine Noble Virtues have been added to the historical framework. In another thread, Deoridhe explained modifications as

Deoridhe

what the worship of our gods might have looked like if it had survived uninterrupted.

This is interesting, because a religion that is around for any length of time can undergo a lot of change and schisms among the practitioners. In addition, I can imagine that some ancient religious practices would require quite a bit of change to make them acceptable to modern sensibilities. What sort of changes are permissable? Are there some things which simply cannot be changed? These questions can be taken as referring to recon religions in general or to the one with which you are most familiar as long as you specify it in your post.  

[Bastemhet]

I was wondering about this myself, lately. My opinion is that a religion must change to suit the devotees at the time in order to be relevant to them, save for as long as those changes don't affect the basic tenets and specifics that make the religion what it is, differentiated from others. I wish I could give a good example but my knowledge on recon religions is unfortunately limited.  

[patch99329]

The re-cons I know, try and adhere to original practices(without UPG) as much as possible given the current times. One always has to remember that we are NOT from the same culture, so some things may not be possible.  

[Starlock]

Seems that most recons make the change of 'no animal sacrifice' to suit practices to the modern times. I suspect there are those who don't throw that method out of the mix, though. As Patch said, we have to remember we're not from the same culture. Our worldviews are modernized, so we take that to any interpretation of things of the past. How a Recon (or anyone else) sees the mythos of a Pagan culture may not be how it was seen by others in that time period.  

[TeaDidikai]

patch99329

The re-cons I know, try and adhere to original practices(without UPG) as much as possible given the current times.

Really? I find UPG is a very valid source of inspiration for Recons- however, they challenge it when it comes into direct conflict with other sources.

Starlock

Seems that most recons make the change of 'no animal sacrifice' to suit practices to the modern times.

My experience is very different from yours in this respect. Do you have statistics to support this?  

[patch99329]

TeaDidikai

patch99329

The re-cons I know, try and adhere to original practices(without UPG) as much as possible given the current times.

Really? I find UPG is a very valid source of inspiration for Recons- however, they challenge it when it comes into direct conflict with other sources.

I take it back xD
Your point makes alot more sense and I didn't take it into account.  

[TeaDidikai]

patch99329

I take it back xD
Your point makes alot more sense and I didn't take it into account.

Meh- I was just pointing out something Deo had said.  

[Lynna Valin]

I identify as a Welsh Recon, but life has pretty much snuffed most of my practice out of existence for the time being. As a result, I've had a little time to contemplate what I believe, why I believe it, and my methods of worship.

As a self-identified recon, I'm constantly learning and researching. I don't speak Welsh, and that really hampers my research. I do have every intention of learning the basics of the language, though.

Currently, I have a small altar that suits me well enough. While I should do daily offerings, I do not. Instead, I pray before I fall asleep to the appropriate gods.

Basically, I've taken the mythos of ancient Wales and applied it to my life. I make anecdotes in relation to the myths and when I'm unable to derive an answer from them, I go with with is in my heart mixed with a bit of logic.

Most of my personal religion is centered on that mythos and what "feels right" in my heart. I know it's a haphazard approach, but I learn and adapt.  

[Deoridhe]

Ur, I just want to state for the record that I'm pretty much indifferent to most of the nine noble virtues, and a few of them I actively disagree with.

But, then, I am dedicated to Odin and Loki.  

[Starlock]

TeaDidikai

Starlock

Seems that most recons make the change of 'no animal sacrifice' to suit practices to the modern times.

My experience is very different from yours in this respect. Do you have statistics to support this?

No stats; just personal experience based on some of the Recons I've met IRL (some of which, admittedly, were more genuinely reconstructionalist than others, but none did animal sacrifice literally). I'm not sure systematized surveys exist for this. I don't remember it being an item in Berger's surveys or any other I've gotten my eyes on. A big push point for Neopaganism in general that is seen often is 'we don't do animal sacrifice' as that's a big objection people come up with to Neopagan paths (recon or otherwise). I've heard a few scattered anecdotal reports of some Neopagans still doing it, but they've been few and far between.  

[patch99329]

Starlock

A big push point for Neopaganism in general that is seen often is 'we don't do animal sacrifice' as that's a big objection people come up with to Neopagan paths (recon or otherwise). I've heard a few scattered anecdotal reports of some Neopagans still doing it, but they've been few and far between.

Hmm, I disagree.
I think it depends on who you talk to.  

[TeaDidikai]

patch99329

Starlock

A big push point for Neopaganism in general that is seen often is 'we don't do animal sacrifice' as that's a big objection people come up with to Neopagan paths (recon or otherwise). I've heard a few scattered anecdotal reports of some Neopagans still doing it, but they've been few and far between.

Hmm, I disagree.
I think it depends on who you talk to.

Myself- I've personally taken part in several.
Usually done via local Asatru groups.

And believe me, animal sacrifice is alive and well in many Meso-Pagan trads.  

[Ulfrikr inn Hrafn]

mute_coyote

Something I've been wondering about recently is the process of reconstructing old religions which have fallen out of common usage or even died out completely. The first thing that comes to mind when I read the term "reconstruction" is that the practitioners are trying to take what they know to practice the religion as close to it's original form as possible. Yet I've noticed that in Asatru, things like the Nine Noble Virtues have been added to the historical framework. In another thread, Deoridhe explained modifications as

Deoridhe

what the worship of our gods might have looked like if it had survived uninterrupted.

This is interesting, because a religion that is around for any length of time can undergo a lot of change and schisms among the practitioners. In addition, I can imagine that some ancient religious practices would require quite a bit of change to make them acceptable to modern sensibilities. What sort of changes are permissable? Are there some things which simply cannot be changed? These questions can be taken as referring to recon religions in general or to the one with which you are most familiar as long as you specify it in your post.

Heilsan Mute_Coyote ok Allir,

Something that needs to be clearly understood about the Germanic Folkway, is that, as a cultural tradition, it is as much about the way of life of the people involved as it is the gods and goddesses. Modernisation of practice, or modification of practice is in line with our ancestral models where such modernisation/modification is based on historically verifiable content or context. The Nine Noble Virtues for example, were an attempt to codify what people believed to be the central, core elements of Odinism (as that is it's source) and as such, one could consider it a cultural move coming from a particular 'tribe' if you will. Whilst certain things were common throughout the Germanic peoples (read Tacitus), many things were different too. Does the practice of another group detract from that of my own? No, I think not. What I do think detracts from the practices of the Folkway as a whole, is the wholesale integration of UPG into the Folkway without sufficient testing of such UPG. In todays world of the Internet, anyone with some time, and a very small amount of money can put up a website with pretty much anything upon it, and call it what-ever they will, and represent themselves however they wish to. It's only in my opinion a problem for those whom are new to the Germanic Folkways and might be finding their feet for the first time, as the more conflicting information that's out there, the more confused they'll be and the increased level of detraction from our ancestral traditions will ensue.

In regards the practice of animal sacrifice, it is my considered opinion that where this can be done well, it should be done, but where it cannot be done well, it shouldn't be done at all. Remember that once upon a time many folk butchered their own livestock, something that very few people have experience of today, and indeed, there are very few people whom still know how to kill an animal without causing it undue pain via their bare hands or with basic impliments. I fully support animal sacrifice where it is done well and within the context of the folk beliefs of the peoples concerned.

I am loathe to change practices willy-nilly, but rather would see things develop slowly, as they tend to do in a culture anyways. My own development and attitudinal change is a prime example. I am very much a different person now in my Folkway than I was when I first became interested in the Runes some 15 years ago. And it's taken 15 years to get to this point in my life, and my ideas have changed slowly, and carefully, always testing the changes to ensure that they do indeed fit, not only with my own practice but also with that of the Folk whom form my community, as my practice is as much for their benefit as it is for my own.

Ver thu heil  

[TeaDidikai]

I'm beginning to wonder if Germanic and Norse Recon in general is more inclined towards Animal Sacrifice than other groups.  

[patch99329]

TeaDidikai

I'm beginning to wonder if Germanic and Norse Recon in general is more inclined towards Animal Sacrifice than other groups.

I'm inclined to agree. Personal experience would suggest so.