Chat Thread: Chopsticks and teacups

[Henry Dorsett Case]

Gideon Starorzewski

s**t I need to log onto this mule more often. That one guild, the one where Tea seems to be waging a one woman war, it's goddamn scary. I'm so glad I developed the ability to think for myself before I got into all this daft s**t. xd

Drat. The guild changed itself over to Private - I had been having a fun time coming in and sweeping up some of the crew's poor responses to Tea.  

[TeaDidikai]

It's kind of sad. Most of them still haven't figured out that I was actually banned from the guild.  

[Henry Dorsett Case]

TeaDidikai

It's kind of sad. Most of them still haven't figured out that I was actually banned from the guild.

I was surprised I didn't get banned for pointing out heteria's little problem with her "My Trad thinks Gardner's useless" assertion.

Then again, we are talking about a guild run by someone who thinks the phrase "Facts disagree with you" is flaming.  

[TeaDidikai]

Henry Dorsett Case

TeaDidikai

It's kind of sad. Most of them still haven't figured out that I was actually banned from the guild.

I was surprised I didn't get banned for pointing out heteria's little problem with her "My Trad thinks Gardner's useless" assertion.

Then again, we are talking about a guild run by someone who thinks the phrase "Facts disagree with you" is flaming.

Fair enough.  

[PhantomPhoenix0]

Anyone got any sites that discredit Ravenwolf? I've got a girl in my little de-fluffing project who's refusing to accept that the Wicca For the Rest of Us link is credible enough.

I believe she was something about taking a few quotes like that will make her look bad no matter what.  

[Kal Eldritch]

http://wicca.timerift.net/ravenwolf.shtml

Complete with adorable pink fluffy bunny.  

[Henry Dorsett Case]

Sovereign of Darkness

http://wicca.timerift.net/ravenwolf.shtml

Complete with adorable pink fluffy bunny.

That bunny looks familiar...

(Been using that one for the Mr. Dark/Fluffy Bunny crossbreeds for a month or so)  

[VisasMarr]

yessh... IRAB Spiritualists (I am not sure if that is the right word) drive me nuts. I tried to explain in more detail, really I did. And I was nice... rolleyes  

[PhantomPhoenix0]

Sovereign of Darkness

http://wicca.timerift.net/ravenwolf.shtml

Complete with adorable pink fluffy bunny.

Thats the one im using. Hold on, I'll show you her last PM.

Twisted_D_W

Quote:

So by being threatened with "Hell", you "snivel" at a Gods feet to be saved.
Nice to see you use the same techniques she does against Christianity.

bible American Standard Version

Genesis 22:12
And he said, Lay not thy hand upon the lad, neither do thou anything unto him. For now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son, from me.
Genesis 22:11-13


Exodus 18:21
Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating unjust gain; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens:
Exodus 18:20-22

bible English Standard Version

Proverbs 31:30
Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain,but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.
Proverbs 31:29-31

Revelation 15:4
Who will not fear, O Lord,and glorify your name?For you alone are holy.All nations will comeand worship you,for your righteous acts have been revealed."
Revelation 15:3-5

i used an online bible serch program and looked up fear

in just one of there bibles (and they had menny other's) i found 435 referance's to FEAR

can you honestly tell me they are not trying to frighting there folower into beliving and following?

Quote:

Your little point doesnt even fit in with this quote. So what if she's getting letters from Christians? This doesnt deal with "the influx of Christianity and its 'turn the other cheek' mlodrama" she refrences.

my quote/responce

I believe one of the biggest problems Witches face today is the influx of Christianity and its "turn the other cheek" melodrama. More and more individuals are leaving the Christian Kingdom in favor of ours, but they bring with them brains that have been hammered for years with another philosophy. (Page 270) / it was due to letter she recived from former Christian's saying "but in the bible this" or "but with Christian's that!"

i was refering to the part of the quote that said

your site

More and more individuals are leaving the Christian Kingdom in favor of ours, but they bring with them brains that have been hammered for years with another philosophy.

and i refered to that part because of this part (i figgered you had read the site and didnt need the hole thing re-read to you! guess i was wrong!)

your site

Heaven forbid that outside concepts and ideas ever make their way inside a Wiccan's head. There is a lot to learn from religions outside of our own.

She never said not to hear the Idea of religions outside of our own. but when the directly inter fear with what we as wiccan do belive and people use them to down play or put down wiccan concepts and ideas and bring with them the idea that there is only "one true way" it brings hardship's to the reast of us as a gruop

Quote:

OH NOES!!!one NEVAR AGAIN TEH BURNING TYMEZ!!!
Got news for ya, the people killed? Christians. Witches? Hard to say. There is no proof of any actual "witches" being killed. The best they have is under torture, and even then, thats pretty hard to call irrefutable proof.

it dosent matter if they actluly were pagan's or not! Christians were TRYING to find and kill pagan's and got over parinoid and killed alot of there own in the "witch hunt's"

Quote:

Problems with this:
1) The facts are false, as I have addressed above.
2) So you advocate telling a (false) story in order to spread hate for Christianity?

so your trying to tell me they wern't trying to kill or convert pagan's at any cost?

Quote:

There are bigots and fluffies in every religion. You've done a good job of discribing a bigot.

You're problem is you're fluffy, and you stand by a fluffy AND a bigot.

Secondly, there were no Wiccans burned. Ever. Wanna know why?
Because Gerald Gardner created Wicca. He did not revive it, he did not form a new tradition. He founded the entire religion.

yes Wicca was founded in the resent past off the ideas and belif's of pagan's so we are in a way decendent's of them.

and i know what a bigot is but what the heck is a fluffy?? somthing i find stuck to my shirt?

Quote:

Did you miss the word usually in that quote?
Secondly, I say again, there was no Pagan god that suddenly got its name changed to Satan.

your right there is not god whos name was officaly changed to Satan! Christian's just translated one of our gods to be there Satan so we as a people would look bad and they could say we were evil

Quote:

Also, what in Allfather's name is a Pegan?
oooooh, you mean PAGAN.

oh boy i miss spelt something! that so prove's your point i guess you must be right cuze i had a spelling error or 2



If you were more open minded maybe you would understand where she come's from!

she dosent hate all Christians or all people of other religions. just those who are not willing to acsept that other people may think differently than them!



(All quote's are from your last PM unless it says otherwise!)

 

[Henry Dorsett Case]

Pardon, Phoenix, but I felt the urge to respond here to your fluffy. If you happen to think anything I say might be useful, take it and run with it. Warning: I might say a few naughty words.

Twisted_D_W

in just one of there bibles (and they had menny other's) i found 435 referance's to FEAR

And yet not once did you ever notice that the phrase "fear of God" is not used in the context of actually being afraid of God, but in reverence of His might. Even a non-Christian with a truly open eye can see that.

Quote:

can you honestly tell me they are not trying to frighting there folower into beliving and following?

Yup.

Quote:

i was refering to the part of the quote that said

your site

More and more individuals are leaving the Christian Kingdom in favor of ours, but they bring with them brains that have been hammered for years with another philosophy.

and i refered to that part because of this part (i figgered you had read the site and didnt need the hole thing re-read to you! guess i was wrong!)

Yet, rather than teaching them how to "unlearn", she merely ridicules their former religion. No wonder today's Pop-Wiccans are seen as rebellious teenagers who take up the pentacle as a way to piss off mommy and daddy.

Quote:

your site

Heaven forbid that outside concepts and ideas ever make their way inside a Wiccan's head. There is a lot to learn from religions outside of our own.

She never said not to hear the Idea of religions outside of our own. but when the directly inter fear with what we as wiccan do belive and people use them to down play or put down wiccan concepts and ideas and bring with them the idea that there is only "one true way" it brings hardship's to the reast of us as a gruop

Way to misinterpret Ravenwolf. If you look at her context, and the fact that some Trad Wiccan groups, well, <******** hate her, you'll see that what she's talking about is not "researching other religions", but rather the same whiny "You're closed-minded if you don't agree with me!" bullshit that many of her followers continue to spout whenever someone reminds them that the Black Forest Clan has no entitlement to the name Wicca.

Quote:

it dosent matter if they actluly were pagan's or not! Christians were TRYING to find and kill pagan's and got over parinoid and killed alot of there own in the "witch hunt's"

Nowhere near the numbers claimed. Nowhere. ********. Near.

Quote:

so your trying to tell me they wern't trying to kill or convert pagan's at any cost?

Let's see...witch hunts that happened centuries ago that may or may not actually have had anything to do with witchcraft, but rather using religion as an excuse for show-trials based on flimsy accusations for whatever purpose...nope, doesn't sound like trying to convert or kill pagans at all. Classwar, land grabs, and stifling outspoken women has nothing to do with religion, no matter what guise it's stuck under.

Quote:

yes Wicca was founded in the resent past off the ideas and belif's of pagan's so we are in a way decendent's of them.

I'd love to get an expanded view on this sentence to deal with the fact that it would actually be more semantically clear were it written in Japanese.

Quote:

and i know what a bigot is but what the heck is a fluffy?? somthing i find stuck to my shirt?

(Insert known definition of a Fluffy Bunny here)

Quote:

your right there is not god whos name was officaly changed to Satan! Christian's just translated one of our gods to be there Satan so we as a people would look bad and they could say we were evil

How illiterate are you? (Or should I say: CN U REED?) No Pagan deity was "translated to be Satan". Did. Not. ********. Happen. Satan has been in the Bible before the Olde Religionne was Younge. If anyone can claim that the Christians stole the image of Satan from them, it'd be the Greeks (Pan, anyone?).

Quote:

oh boy i miss spelt something! that so prove's your point i guess you must be right cuze i had a spelling error or 2

Or several hundred by this point. It's hard to take you seriously when your grasp of the English language is apparently tenuous at best.

Quote:

If you were more open minded maybe you would understand where she come's from!

She comes from a tradition she founded herself that is a syncretic mix of Germanic witchcraft and Pow-Wow that she claims was taught to her by her Old Guard Wiccan teachers. That's on the page for The Black Forest Clan. Issue: "Old Guard" is not a Tradition, but a mindset. It's kind of like saying you were taught in "British Traditional Wicca" - that's an umbrella term for multiple Wiccan Traditions, including some that claim the BTW title without right. She, like many Llewellyn authors, completely fails to mention what exact tradition these teachers come from and why that training entitles her to the name Wicca.

Quote:

she dosent hate all Christians or all people of other religions. just those who are not willing to acsept that other people may think differently than them!

Yet she does such a great job telling people to lie to Christians, perpetuating myths of current ongoing widespread Christian persecution, and in general painting Christianity as a literal, rather than figurative, flock of sheep.  

[PhantomPhoenix0]

Henry Dorsett Case

Pardon, Phoenix, but I felt the urge to respond here to your fluffy. If you happen to think anything I say might be useful, take it and run with it. Warning: I might say a few naughty words.

Twisted_D_W

in just one of there bibles (and they had menny other's) i found 435 referance's to FEAR

And yet not once did you ever notice that the phrase "fear of God" is not used in the context of actually being afraid of God, but in reverence of His might. Even a non-Christian with a truly open eye can see that.

Quote:

can you honestly tell me they are not trying to frighting there folower into beliving and following?

Yup.

Quote:

i was refering to the part of the quote that said

your site

More and more individuals are leaving the Christian Kingdom in favor of ours, but they bring with them brains that have been hammered for years with another philosophy.

and i refered to that part because of this part (i figgered you had read the site and didnt need the hole thing re-read to you! guess i was wrong!)

Yet, rather than teaching them how to "unlearn", she merely ridicules their former religion. No wonder today's Pop-Wiccans are seen as rebellious teenagers who take up the pentacle as a way to piss off mommy and daddy.

Quote:

your site

Heaven forbid that outside concepts and ideas ever make their way inside a Wiccan's head. There is a lot to learn from religions outside of our own.

She never said not to hear the Idea of religions outside of our own. but when the directly inter fear with what we as wiccan do belive and people use them to down play or put down wiccan concepts and ideas and bring with them the idea that there is only "one true way" it brings hardship's to the reast of us as a gruop

Way to misinterpret Ravenwolf. If you look at her context, and the fact that some Trad Wiccan groups, well, <******** hate her, you'll see that what she's talking about is not "researching other religions", but rather the same whiny "You're closed-minded if you don't agree with me!" bullshit that many of her followers continue to spout whenever someone reminds them that the Black Forest Clan has no entitlement to the name Wicca.

Quote:

it dosent matter if they actluly were pagan's or not! Christians were TRYING to find and kill pagan's and got over parinoid and killed alot of there own in the "witch hunt's"

Nowhere near the numbers claimed. Nowhere. ********. Near.

Quote:

so your trying to tell me they wern't trying to kill or convert pagan's at any cost?

Let's see...witch hunts that happened centuries ago that may or may not actually have had anything to do with witchcraft, but rather using religion as an excuse for show-trials based on flimsy accusations for whatever purpose...nope, doesn't sound like trying to convert or kill pagans at all. Classwar, land grabs, and stifling outspoken women has nothing to do with religion, no matter what guise it's stuck under.

Quote:

yes Wicca was founded in the resent past off the ideas and belif's of pagan's so we are in a way decendent's of them.

I'd love to get an expanded view on this sentence to deal with the fact that it would actually be more semantically clear were it written in Japanese.

Quote:

and i know what a bigot is but what the heck is a fluffy?? somthing i find stuck to my shirt?

(Insert known definition of a Fluffy Bunny here)

Quote:

your right there is not god whos name was officaly changed to Satan! Christian's just translated one of our gods to be there Satan so we as a people would look bad and they could say we were evil

How illiterate are you? (Or should I say: CN U REED?) No Pagan deity was "translated to be Satan". Did. Not. ********. Happen. Satan has been in the Bible before the Olde Religionne was Younge. If anyone can claim that the Christians stole the image of Satan from them, it'd be the Greeks (Pan, anyone?).

Quote:

oh boy i miss spelt something! that so prove's your point i guess you must be right cuze i had a spelling error or 2

Or several hundred by this point. It's hard to take you seriously when your grasp of the English language is apparently tenuous at best.

Quote:

If you were more open minded maybe you would understand where she come's from!

She comes from a tradition she founded herself that is a syncretic mix of Germanic witchcraft and Pow-Wow that she claims was taught to her by her Old Guard Wiccan teachers. That's on the page for The Black Forest Clan. Issue: "Old Guard" is not a Tradition, but a mindset. It's kind of like saying you were taught in "British Traditional Wicca" - that's an umbrella term for multiple Wiccan Traditions, including some that claim the BTW title without right. She, like many Llewellyn authors, completely fails to mention what exact tradition these teachers come from and why that training entitles her to the name Wicca.

Quote:

she dosent hate all Christians or all people of other religions. just those who are not willing to acsept that other people may think differently than them!

Yet she does such a great job telling people to lie to Christians, perpetuating myths of current ongoing widespread Christian persecution, and in general painting Christianity as a literal, rather than figurative, flock of sheep.

Go right ahead. If its ok, can I use some of your points in my reply to her?  

[Witchwolf]

wow, thats a lot of bible stuff, but what some ppl don't relieze, is that a lot of church idea's, rituals and songs came from the pagans at the start of god movement.  

[CuAnnan]

Witchwolf

wow, thats a lot of bible stuff, but what some ppl don't relieze, is that a lot of church idea's, rituals and songs came from the pagans at the start of god movement.

You got a source for this?  

[Henry Dorsett Case]

PhantomPhoenix0

Henry Dorsett Case

Pardon, Phoenix, but I felt the urge to respond here to your fluffy. If you happen to think anything I say might be useful, take it and run with it. Warning: I might say a few naughty words.

Go right ahead. If its ok, can I use some of your points in my reply to her?

(Joking) CN U REED? xp
'Course you can.  

[Henry Dorsett Case]

VisasMarr

yessh... IRAB Spiritualists (I am not sure if that is the right word) drive me nuts. I tried to explain in more detail, really I did. And I was nice... rolleyes

Seems like that whole guild's going bye-bye...
Now what barrel are we going to shoot our fish in?