Chat Thread: Chopsticks and teacups

[PoeticVengeance]

If I anthropomorphize (sp?) an Aspect, just because it makes channeling its energies easier, not because I believe that it has human qualities for reals, does that make me polytheistic? O_o  

[error-dot-tar]

PoeticVengeance

If I anthropomorphize (sp?) an Aspect, just because it makes channeling its energies easier, not because I believe that it has human qualities for reals, does that make me polytheistic? O_o

No more than a Chaote is for creating servitors, I imagine.  

[Nomad of Nowhere]

Celeblin Galadeneryn

sol_oriens

Celeblin Galadeneryn

sol_oriens

Celeblin Galadeneryn

It only gains my ire when Artemis is suddenly the be all and end all of deities for women. That's the point when I must say seriously, fools, what the bleeding hell happened to Hera?

Hey! I have a shrine to Hera -- not to Artemis. I'm married after all, and Hera is freaking powerful.

No rusty pick ax -- just good reading, UPG and my own sense of good judgment. I think our arguments are fun anyways.

I'd only be alarmed if you suddenly had a shrine to Ares. Just.... WHY?

As much as I can see some of the modern attitudes towards Ares, he's not a god I'm going to set up a shrine for.

If I wanted to do physical excellence, like a lot of the modern stuff focuses on, I'd be more apt to stick with Apollo or Artemis.

And thank you for making the distinction about Artemis. She's not a woman -- she's an adolescent by modern standards if anything.

She's youthful, but she's not really an adolescent either. My point was that Artemis isn't a woman, not only because she is a parthenos, but because she isn't human! People often have the problem of equating humanity, and all the trappings and responsibilities thereof on Gods that take human forms. As such, I don't refer to them in terms which render humanity upon them, especially for Hera (I've been witness to a fellow student being chastised for calling Hera... I think what he used was crazy woman, to which Dr. Fagan calmly replied that he needed to stop thinking in terms of the Gods being human, as they don't follow our rules. I must say that I do so love that crazy woman, though. Dr. Fagan, not Hera xd )

I hate to make this line of discussion outstay its welcome, but I have to ask what terms I should think of a deity in, and why a "woman" is not just any sentient female entity characterized to a degree by her age. I understand not judging her, but it's hard for me to comprehend her appeal. Then again, the appeal of marriage itself will probably be far away from me for some time, so maybe I should not expect to see it yet. I will not judge her as a crazy lady in the interim, certainly.

I know that whatever she does, it is no less natural and no more restrained than Zeus does, what with his dalliances. What would many men do if they were gods? What would many women with cheating husbands do if they were goddesses? It's not so strange to me. Sometimes people seem much less judgemental about one than the other though.

I know Demeter's not really relevant to most modern ways of life; my mentioning her was only aesthetic. Still, even growing a garden would, I think, qualify for involving oneself with her. I do agree that Athena seems more compatable in the modern world than Artemis.

Wasn't Apollo a god of atheletes- those who honed their bodies in the Pythian games. If I recall correctly, people like Hyacinth? I think that gives him plenty of sway in the domain of physical perfection.  

[TeaDidikai]

Finally got to see the episode of House that features the Rroma characters.

It was meh. Could have been a hell of a lot worse, could have been a bit better.  

[Tagra Nar]

Teague the Druid

I hate to make this line of discussion outstay its welcome, but I have to ask what terms I should think of a deity in, and why a "woman" is not just any sentient female entity characterized to a degree by her age.

Because "woman" refers specifically to the female sentient being of the human variety. It's... kind of its definition.

Think of a female deity as female, or as a goddess. Seems to work just fine as that.  

[patch99329]

Celeblin Galadeneryn

And what sources are these modern Hellenics drawing from where Ares is physical excellence.

Not that he doesn't possess Arete, but I think Athena, if not Apollo, would beat his a** on that.

Oh wait, Athena has beaten his a** (har har har...)

I don't suppose you've ever heard people say he'd be a 'great patron for activists'?

Somebody replied that he dosen't seem like the type to really give a ******** about the environment. xD

Myself, I don't give Ares any special cult besides leaving offerings for the 12 olympians.  

[Sir William Black]

Maze

Tea will get used to it! The stick is the best part of the car!

You know, if you just put the ball on the tee for me, it takes a lot of the fun out of it. ninja  

[Sir William Black]

patch99329

I don't suppose you've ever heard people say he'd be a 'great patron for activists'?

Somebody replied that he doesn't seem like the type to really give a ******** about the environment. xD

I wouldn't think Ares would care about any activists that aren't lodging their complaints via javelin and trebuchet.  

[Nomad of Nowhere]

Tagra Nar

Teague the Druid

I hate to make this line of discussion outstay its welcome, but I have to ask what terms I should think of a deity in, and why a "woman" is not just any sentient female entity characterized to a degree by her age.

Because "woman" refers specifically to the female sentient being of the human variety. It's... kind of its definition.

Think of a female deity as female, or as a goddess. Seems to work just fine as that.

We aren't talking about hedgehogs or iguanas here. These are figures for which human characteristics apply, and even gods presiding over human characteristics. As for the definition of woman being purely human, it sort of pointless to say that, considering that it's largely because the only beings fitting the human concept of being female are humans. To me, that's like saying only humans can be warriors, just because our idea of a warrior can't be satisfied by any animal. What I mean is that if we met aliens that looked just like us but had green skin, we might still call the females women. Saying that a goddess is not a woman and that a god is not a man seems so arbitrary, because they behave and are treated exactly as though they were men and women. Since the ferryman isn't human, should he be "ferryentity"?

For some activists, the Roman Liberta might be a good pick. I can't think of a deity more tied into the country's history, considering we technically bult a large statue of her (Lady Liberty).  

[TeaDidikai]

Teague the Druid

We aren't talking about hedgehogs or iguanas here. These are figures for which human characteristics apply, and even gods presiding over human characteristics.

Just like there are animals that preside over human characteristics? For example, a wolfish grin or a foxy glance, to say nothing of the anthropomorphic relationships many spiritual traditions have with critters.

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What I mean is that if we met aliens that looked just like us but had green skin, we might still call the females women.

Actually, I'd call an Orion dangerous.

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Saying that a goddess is not a woman and that a god is not a man seems so arbitrary, because they behave and are treated exactly as though they were men and women. Since the ferryman isn't human, should he be "ferryentity"?

You mean Charon? Or the Psychopomp?  

[Tagra Nar]

Teague the Druid

We aren't talking about hedgehogs or iguanas here.

No, we're talking about humans and deities, one of which are distinctly, well, human, and the other distinctly non-human.

Quote:

These are figures for which human characteristics apply, and even gods presiding over human characteristics. As for the definition of woman being purely human, it sort of pointless to say that, considering that it's largely because the only beings fitting the human concept of being female are humans.

The human concept of being female is to have female genitalia, when speaking strictly of the sex of an organism. The only beings that fit the human concept of being a "woman" are female humans. The Gods may appear human, but they are definitely not. They are divine. They can do things no mortal man may do. They are set apart, and while the goddesses may be womanly at times, they are not women per se. Just as the male deities may come across as "manly," but are not men.

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To me, that's like saying only humans can be warriors, just because our idea of a warrior can't be satisfied by any animal. What I mean is that if we met aliens that looked just like us but had green skin, we might still call the females women. Saying that a goddess is not a woman and that a god is not a man seems so arbitrary, because they behave and are treated exactly as though they were men and women. Since the ferryman isn't human, should he be "ferryentity"?

I very much doubt we would. We would likely refer to them as the females of the species, or whatever term that race uses to distinguish between the two. And this hypothetical is pointless, as these still are not divine beings.
Except that the Gods often act in ways that are not human. Zeus turning into a swan =/= human activity. No person, regarding the Hellenic gods, is offered worship in the same way, so they are often not treated the same way as men and women.
As for the ferryman, no. He should be referred to as Charon. And transplanting an occupational title doesn't have the same issues as transplanting a title for a specific gender of a specific species. One describes a job, and either gender could, in the right society, perform the same duty regardless of the implied gender of the title. Much like your hypothetical aliens could be ferrymen, without being men or women. This flexibility of the term does not apply to "woman."  

[MoonJeli]

This conversation makes me think of silly things.

Animals all have their own group names and designations for male and female. Like a human male is a "man", and a human female is a "woman". A male fox is a "tod" and a female fox is a "vixen". Boy dogs are "dogs" and girl dogs are "bitches", and a male donkey is a "jack" and a female is a "jenny".

Maybe there needs to be specific names for male and female gods. xd  

[TeaDidikai]

MoonJeli

Maybe there needs to be specific names for male and female gods. xd

A number of trads do. English as it is spoken today however grew within a monotheistic culture so a number of subtle linguistics have been revamped.

Is now a good time to point out that there is a masculine and femmine form already?  

[patch99329]

MoonJeli

Maybe there needs to be specific names for male and female gods. xd

Liiiike, god and goddess you mean? xd  

[Nomad of Nowhere]

Obviously, you realize I didn't mean to imply that humans were worshipped like gods. I should have specified. I don't see any evidence for a rule against referring to gods in "human" terms. Apollo was called a Kourros, a unbearded youth, which refers to his gender, his age, and is no less restrained to the domain of humanity than "man" or "woman" or "boy" or "girl" are- but it was an essential part of his image or depiction. In any case, I should know better than to argue about the exact meaning of a word. In some languages, being a woman is the same as being a wife or "potential wife". In others, it's simply a word for human or person- paired with some indicator of gender. Then again, "person" and "being" or "sentient being" seem to become synonymous sometimes. When this started, I was also thinking in regards to the use of "man" and "woman" to denote age, which can be important to a deity's nature. That was probably because of what was mentioned earlier concerning Artemis.